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What is meant by a M next to a roman numeral?

8

That is, a I or V followed by an M in the superscript.

theory chords roman-numerals sevenths

share|improve this question

edited 2 days ago

Shevliaskovic

20.7k1381172

asked 2 days ago

Nathan TibbittsNathan Tibbitts

908

• 
  
  
  

  
  3
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  (1) You put a capitol M in the text, but a lowercase m in the title (they would mean different things no matter what) Also, (2) can you provide a picture? There are a few different systems of notation, and it could mean several slightly different things.
  
  – Ben I.
  2 days ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Frequently, upper case means major and lower case means minor. But in roman numeral notation, the case is usually in the roman numeral itself, so there's no need for an "m" to denote the quality of the third. That is, IV means a major chord on the 4th scale degree and iv means a minor chord on the same scale degree, while GM means G major (though simply G is more common) and Gm means G minor. The picture you've posted is puzzling.
  
  – phoog
  2 days ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  That symbol is new for me. What book/source did this come from?
  
  – Michael Curtis
  2 days ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Could you give some more context? Where do you see this? What key is the piece in? What chords come before or after it?
  
  – phoog
  2 days ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

8

That is, a I or V followed by an M in the superscript.

theory chords roman-numerals sevenths

share|improve this question

edited 2 days ago

Shevliaskovic

20.7k1381172

asked 2 days ago

Nathan TibbittsNathan Tibbitts

908

• 
  
  
  

  
  3
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  (1) You put a capitol M in the text, but a lowercase m in the title (they would mean different things no matter what) Also, (2) can you provide a picture? There are a few different systems of notation, and it could mean several slightly different things.
  
  – Ben I.
  2 days ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Frequently, upper case means major and lower case means minor. But in roman numeral notation, the case is usually in the roman numeral itself, so there's no need for an "m" to denote the quality of the third. That is, IV means a major chord on the 4th scale degree and iv means a minor chord on the same scale degree, while GM means G major (though simply G is more common) and Gm means G minor. The picture you've posted is puzzling.
  
  – phoog
  2 days ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  That symbol is new for me. What book/source did this come from?
  
  – Michael Curtis
  2 days ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  2
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Could you give some more context? Where do you see this? What key is the piece in? What chords come before or after it?
  
  – phoog
  2 days ago
  

  
  
  
  

add a comment | 

That is, a I or V followed by an M in the superscript.

theory chords roman-numerals sevenths

share|improve this question

edited 2 days ago

Shevliaskovic

20.7k1381172

asked 2 days ago

Nathan TibbittsNathan Tibbitts

908

share|improve this question

edited 2 days ago

Shevliaskovic

20.7k1381172

asked 2 days ago

Nathan TibbittsNathan Tibbitts

908

share|improve this question

edited 2 days ago

Shevliaskovic

20.7k1381172

asked 2 days ago

Nathan TibbittsNathan Tibbitts

908

edited 2 days ago

Shevliaskovic

20.7k1381172

edited 2 days ago

Shevliaskovic

20.7k1381172

asked 2 days ago

Nathan TibbittsNathan Tibbitts

908

asked 2 days ago

Nathan TibbittsNathan Tibbitts

908

2 Answers
2

active

oldest

votes

6

This might simply be a not-so-good way to indicate that the chord is Major. I usually see this in some kind of off-beat music sheets, usually written by people that don't really know that the capital I indicates that the chord is major or just don't know how to notate the chord numerals.

I disagree that the M means means major 7th (as in Imaj7), because you can deduce that from the 4 2, which means that the chord has a seventh and is in the third inversion.

What is really common, and you might often see, is the lower case m, which means minor, as in Cm or C minor (or Im / im). People extend this writing as C M or C Major (or IM . I Major), but it's not as common. You might see it on some transcriptions of songs on the internet for instance. So amateur musicians might often blend these two together to create a chord name / Roman numeral hybrid.

share|improve this answer

edited 2 days ago

psmears

1834

answered 2 days ago

ShevliaskovicShevliaskovic

20.7k1381172

add a comment | 

5

In my experience, the most common usage is that this "M" signifies that this is a major seventh chord. (But note, as phoog states, that "maj" is the more common usage.)

This is necessary because something like a V7 assumes a minor seventh above the chordal root. As such, we have to clarify that this chord will be a major seventh quality.

Regarding diatonic seventh chords in a major key, this M will only be necessary above the I and IV chords. All other seventh chords either:

1. assume the minor seventh above the root (ii7, iii7, V7, vi7),




2. or explicitly tell you the quality of the seventh chord (like for vii°7).

share|improve this answer

edited 2 days ago

answered 2 days ago

RichardRichard

44.3k7103188

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  In my experience the standard notation for a major seventh chord is maj7, as in IVmaj7.
  
  – phoog
  2 days ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @phoog You're right; my first sentence was worded strangely. Edit incoming!
  
  – Richard
  2 days ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @MichaelCurtis It is redundant, assuming the chord is diatonic. But nevertheless some systems include these clarifications. It's really no different than clarifying "ø" for the vii7 chord in major.
  
  – Richard
  2 days ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Adding to your major sevenths symbols, there's 'little triangle' - can't find a font for it though!
  
  – Tim
  2 days ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Yes, this answer is Kostka/Payne usage (among other texts). The idea is that without an M, there would be no difference between the Roman Numeral symbols for dominant seventh and major seventh chords (since both would have an uppercase Roman numeral). There’s always debate about how specific Roman numerals have to be about qualities of chords, since some would prefer to just infer diatonic harmonies. The most extreme version of that is to not even bother with different cases at all. This notation is on the opposite side of that spectrum, being hyper-specific about quality.
  
  – Pat Muchmore
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 8 more comments

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6

This might simply be a not-so-good way to indicate that the chord is Major. I usually see this in some kind of off-beat music sheets, usually written by people that don't really know that the capital I indicates that the chord is major or just don't know how to notate the chord numerals.

I disagree that the M means means major 7th (as in Imaj7), because you can deduce that from the 4 2, which means that the chord has a seventh and is in the third inversion.

What is really common, and you might often see, is the lower case m, which means minor, as in Cm or C minor (or Im / im). People extend this writing as C M or C Major (or IM . I Major), but it's not as common. You might see it on some transcriptions of songs on the internet for instance. So amateur musicians might often blend these two together to create a chord name / Roman numeral hybrid.

share|improve this answer

edited 2 days ago

psmears

1834

answered 2 days ago

ShevliaskovicShevliaskovic

20.7k1381172

add a comment | 

6

This might simply be a not-so-good way to indicate that the chord is Major. I usually see this in some kind of off-beat music sheets, usually written by people that don't really know that the capital I indicates that the chord is major or just don't know how to notate the chord numerals.

I disagree that the M means means major 7th (as in Imaj7), because you can deduce that from the 4 2, which means that the chord has a seventh and is in the third inversion.

What is really common, and you might often see, is the lower case m, which means minor, as in Cm or C minor (or Im / im). People extend this writing as C M or C Major (or IM . I Major), but it's not as common. You might see it on some transcriptions of songs on the internet for instance. So amateur musicians might often blend these two together to create a chord name / Roman numeral hybrid.

share|improve this answer

edited 2 days ago

psmears

1834

answered 2 days ago

ShevliaskovicShevliaskovic

20.7k1381172

add a comment | 

This might simply be a not-so-good way to indicate that the chord is Major. I usually see this in some kind of off-beat music sheets, usually written by people that don't really know that the capital I indicates that the chord is major or just don't know how to notate the chord numerals.

I disagree that the M means means major 7th (as in Imaj7), because you can deduce that from the 4 2, which means that the chord has a seventh and is in the third inversion.

What is really common, and you might often see, is the lower case m, which means minor, as in Cm or C minor (or Im / im). People extend this writing as C M or C Major (or IM . I Major), but it's not as common. You might see it on some transcriptions of songs on the internet for instance. So amateur musicians might often blend these two together to create a chord name / Roman numeral hybrid.

share|improve this answer

edited 2 days ago

psmears

1834

answered 2 days ago

ShevliaskovicShevliaskovic

20.7k1381172

share|improve this answer

edited 2 days ago

psmears

1834

answered 2 days ago

ShevliaskovicShevliaskovic

20.7k1381172

edited 2 days ago

psmears

1834

edited 2 days ago

psmears

1834

answered 2 days ago

ShevliaskovicShevliaskovic

20.7k1381172

answered 2 days ago

ShevliaskovicShevliaskovic

20.7k1381172

5

In my experience, the most common usage is that this "M" signifies that this is a major seventh chord. (But note, as phoog states, that "maj" is the more common usage.)

This is necessary because something like a V7 assumes a minor seventh above the chordal root. As such, we have to clarify that this chord will be a major seventh quality.

Regarding diatonic seventh chords in a major key, this M will only be necessary above the I and IV chords. All other seventh chords either:

1. assume the minor seventh above the root (ii7, iii7, V7, vi7),




2. or explicitly tell you the quality of the seventh chord (like for vii°7).

share|improve this answer

edited 2 days ago

answered 2 days ago

RichardRichard

44.3k7103188

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  In my experience the standard notation for a major seventh chord is maj7, as in IVmaj7.
  
  – phoog
  2 days ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @phoog You're right; my first sentence was worded strangely. Edit incoming!
  
  – Richard
  2 days ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @MichaelCurtis It is redundant, assuming the chord is diatonic. But nevertheless some systems include these clarifications. It's really no different than clarifying "ø" for the vii7 chord in major.
  
  – Richard
  2 days ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Adding to your major sevenths symbols, there's 'little triangle' - can't find a font for it though!
  
  – Tim
  2 days ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Yes, this answer is Kostka/Payne usage (among other texts). The idea is that without an M, there would be no difference between the Roman Numeral symbols for dominant seventh and major seventh chords (since both would have an uppercase Roman numeral). There’s always debate about how specific Roman numerals have to be about qualities of chords, since some would prefer to just infer diatonic harmonies. The most extreme version of that is to not even bother with different cases at all. This notation is on the opposite side of that spectrum, being hyper-specific about quality.
  
  – Pat Muchmore
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 8 more comments

5

In my experience, the most common usage is that this "M" signifies that this is a major seventh chord. (But note, as phoog states, that "maj" is the more common usage.)

This is necessary because something like a V7 assumes a minor seventh above the chordal root. As such, we have to clarify that this chord will be a major seventh quality.

Regarding diatonic seventh chords in a major key, this M will only be necessary above the I and IV chords. All other seventh chords either:

1. assume the minor seventh above the root (ii7, iii7, V7, vi7),




2. or explicitly tell you the quality of the seventh chord (like for vii°7).

share|improve this answer

edited 2 days ago

answered 2 days ago

RichardRichard

44.3k7103188

• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  In my experience the standard notation for a major seventh chord is maj7, as in IVmaj7.
  
  – phoog
  2 days ago
  
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @phoog You're right; my first sentence was worded strangely. Edit incoming!
  
  – Richard
  2 days ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  @MichaelCurtis It is redundant, assuming the chord is diatonic. But nevertheless some systems include these clarifications. It's really no different than clarifying "ø" for the vii7 chord in major.
  
  – Richard
  2 days ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Adding to your major sevenths symbols, there's 'little triangle' - can't find a font for it though!
  
  – Tim
  2 days ago
  

  
  
  
  


• 
  
  
  

  
  1
  

  
  
  
  
  
  

  
  
  Yes, this answer is Kostka/Payne usage (among other texts). The idea is that without an M, there would be no difference between the Roman Numeral symbols for dominant seventh and major seventh chords (since both would have an uppercase Roman numeral). There’s always debate about how specific Roman numerals have to be about qualities of chords, since some would prefer to just infer diatonic harmonies. The most extreme version of that is to not even bother with different cases at all. This notation is on the opposite side of that spectrum, being hyper-specific about quality.
  
  – Pat Muchmore
  yesterday
  

  
  
  
  

 | 
show 8 more comments

In my experience, the most common usage is that this "M" signifies that this is a major seventh chord. (But note, as phoog states, that "maj" is the more common usage.)

This is necessary because something like a V7 assumes a minor seventh above the chordal root. As such, we have to clarify that this chord will be a major seventh quality.

Regarding diatonic seventh chords in a major key, this M will only be necessary above the I and IV chords. All other seventh chords either:

1. assume the minor seventh above the root (ii7, iii7, V7, vi7),




2. or explicitly tell you the quality of the seventh chord (like for vii°7).

share|improve this answer

edited 2 days ago

answered 2 days ago

RichardRichard

44.3k7103188

share|improve this answer

edited 2 days ago

answered 2 days ago

RichardRichard

44.3k7103188

answered 2 days ago

RichardRichard

44.3k7103188

answered 2 days ago

RichardRichard

44.3k7103188