Direct Experience of Meditation Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern) Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast?Peculiar Experience of Shamatha / VipassanaMomentum Within MeditationMind full MeditationWhat are the attitudes of the schools to the experience of physical pain during sitting meditation?Odd Experience in MeditationThe Experience of What ArisesIdeal Experience in BuddhismMost efficient (timewise) meditation techniques to experience joy and bliss?Confusion Over Intense Experience During MeditationValidity of Meditation Experience
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Direct Experience of Meditation
Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast?Peculiar Experience of Shamatha / VipassanaMomentum Within MeditationMind full MeditationWhat are the attitudes of the schools to the experience of physical pain during sitting meditation?Odd Experience in MeditationThe Experience of What ArisesIdeal Experience in BuddhismMost efficient (timewise) meditation techniques to experience joy and bliss?Confusion Over Intense Experience During MeditationValidity of Meditation Experience
This morning I read many posts on this site. I felt like topics on Buddhist doctrine were somewhat clear to me, but those on meditation seemed complex, difficult to me.
I wondered: Does meditation practice increase knowledge about meditation? Is this what is meant by direct experience?
I feel this may seem as a naive question; I'm mainly wondering how something experienced (i.e. meditation) might affect cognition / knowledge about the topic of meditation.
For example, I'm unsure whether a person hammering nails all day would necessarily understand their task conceptually. Does meditation necessarily give one conceptual knowledge of meditation?
meditation
add a comment |
This morning I read many posts on this site. I felt like topics on Buddhist doctrine were somewhat clear to me, but those on meditation seemed complex, difficult to me.
I wondered: Does meditation practice increase knowledge about meditation? Is this what is meant by direct experience?
I feel this may seem as a naive question; I'm mainly wondering how something experienced (i.e. meditation) might affect cognition / knowledge about the topic of meditation.
For example, I'm unsure whether a person hammering nails all day would necessarily understand their task conceptually. Does meditation necessarily give one conceptual knowledge of meditation?
meditation
add a comment |
This morning I read many posts on this site. I felt like topics on Buddhist doctrine were somewhat clear to me, but those on meditation seemed complex, difficult to me.
I wondered: Does meditation practice increase knowledge about meditation? Is this what is meant by direct experience?
I feel this may seem as a naive question; I'm mainly wondering how something experienced (i.e. meditation) might affect cognition / knowledge about the topic of meditation.
For example, I'm unsure whether a person hammering nails all day would necessarily understand their task conceptually. Does meditation necessarily give one conceptual knowledge of meditation?
meditation
This morning I read many posts on this site. I felt like topics on Buddhist doctrine were somewhat clear to me, but those on meditation seemed complex, difficult to me.
I wondered: Does meditation practice increase knowledge about meditation? Is this what is meant by direct experience?
I feel this may seem as a naive question; I'm mainly wondering how something experienced (i.e. meditation) might affect cognition / knowledge about the topic of meditation.
For example, I'm unsure whether a person hammering nails all day would necessarily understand their task conceptually. Does meditation necessarily give one conceptual knowledge of meditation?
meditation
meditation
asked Apr 14 at 13:49
EggmanEggman
1,975516
1,975516
add a comment |
add a comment |
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
One possible answer is that meditation relies both on the theoretical understanding on what's going on, but also the direct experience. They are mutually dependent as far as i can see.
A mere theoretical understanding of meditation will not take us very far in the progress, just like meditation without a theoretical description of the phenomena involved probably won't take us far either.
add a comment |
Simple analogy:
The experience of watching someone drive (a car) for 1000 years can never compare to actually driving by yourself for 1 hour.
I felt that @Erik had a slightly better answer in that I, also, feel both are required. While the above is true, I felt that trying to drive without watching/learning about driving first could be almost equally fruitless in its results.
– GVCOJims
6 hours ago
add a comment |
Going canonical: Meditation involves samadhi (tranquil absorption) and sati (mindful awareness).
When you investigate a phenomena (breath for example) with this state of mind, depending upon the strength of your mindfulness you will see aspects of the working of the mind itself.
Almost like seeing through the corner of your mind, you see how the mind itself works. And by virtue of seeing that you might see how reality is- this could come from different angles (impermanence, fabricated nature, dependent arising)- our mind releases a little bit "ahh this is silly, why am I so worried about this!".
But those are names we use to convey our experiences. No amount of scholarly dissection of those names will help our mind release it. Only direct, real time, seeing would. Meditation develops the skill and arena for such insights.
This seeing the working of the mind does not need a conceptual framework. But certain conceptual framework (the optimal way to nail a hammer) will help you hammer it deeper and better. But it relies on your experiential understanding of hammering a nail itself. The eight fold path is such a conceptual framework which points us in the general direction of these realizations.
New contributor
add a comment |
Its like this.Say you face a problem with the direct experience of a certain feeling ,thus you decided to formulate a new meditation concept where you contemplate that feeling.
Direct experience is to investigate the true nature of reality its subjective quality
.In hammering nails one will experience nailing
Conceptual knowledge comes about as a result of problems faced when having a direct experience.
If the nail gets bent then one decides to hammer a bit slowly next time.
A quibble. I would question whether the phrase 'its subjective quality' is correct here. It might suggest Reality is an object with a subjective aspect. .
– PeterJ
2 days ago
Its quality is experienced subjectively is what I meant.
– Omar Boshra
2 days ago
This is what I thought you meant. I would suggest that 'Subjective qualities' are rather mundane things and meditation takes us beyond them. Indeed. 'subjective quialites' are exactly what we are trying to transcend. But I see this may be just matter of terminology. ,.
– PeterJ
2 days ago
I agree regarding transcendence ,but its merely the result.The message is that there is nothing...absolutely nothing but the quality and that is the end of suffering.
– Omar Boshra
2 days ago
1
Yes. its no problem .Our disagreement seems to be of a high caliber it has a sophistication ,knowing this one is not bothered and simply learns from the other :).
– Omar Boshra
2 days ago
|
show 2 more comments
The question is a little muddled for a clear answer. Or, at least, that's my excuse.
Direct experience is unmediated so is non-sensory. Practice increases knowledge of meditation if all goes well but meditation takes us beyond experience and the experience-experiencer-experienced distinctions so direct experience is not the end of the story. As the Upanishds ask, 'Who is there to experience the experiencer?'
Meditation has no topic as such, other than finding out who you are. In the end this not about experience but about being.
This would be why the claim of Jesus and Al-Hallaj is not 'I know the truth' but 'I am Truth'. A relevant comment from Imam Ali, the first Shia Imam, may be, 'Why dost the reckon thyself a puny being when within thee the universe is enfolded.' Meditation takes us beyond the experiences of puny beings, direct or otherwise.
add a comment |
Your Answer
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5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
One possible answer is that meditation relies both on the theoretical understanding on what's going on, but also the direct experience. They are mutually dependent as far as i can see.
A mere theoretical understanding of meditation will not take us very far in the progress, just like meditation without a theoretical description of the phenomena involved probably won't take us far either.
add a comment |
One possible answer is that meditation relies both on the theoretical understanding on what's going on, but also the direct experience. They are mutually dependent as far as i can see.
A mere theoretical understanding of meditation will not take us very far in the progress, just like meditation without a theoretical description of the phenomena involved probably won't take us far either.
add a comment |
One possible answer is that meditation relies both on the theoretical understanding on what's going on, but also the direct experience. They are mutually dependent as far as i can see.
A mere theoretical understanding of meditation will not take us very far in the progress, just like meditation without a theoretical description of the phenomena involved probably won't take us far either.
One possible answer is that meditation relies both on the theoretical understanding on what's going on, but also the direct experience. They are mutually dependent as far as i can see.
A mere theoretical understanding of meditation will not take us very far in the progress, just like meditation without a theoretical description of the phenomena involved probably won't take us far either.
answered Apr 14 at 14:10
ErikErik
1897
1897
add a comment |
add a comment |
Simple analogy:
The experience of watching someone drive (a car) for 1000 years can never compare to actually driving by yourself for 1 hour.
I felt that @Erik had a slightly better answer in that I, also, feel both are required. While the above is true, I felt that trying to drive without watching/learning about driving first could be almost equally fruitless in its results.
– GVCOJims
6 hours ago
add a comment |
Simple analogy:
The experience of watching someone drive (a car) for 1000 years can never compare to actually driving by yourself for 1 hour.
I felt that @Erik had a slightly better answer in that I, also, feel both are required. While the above is true, I felt that trying to drive without watching/learning about driving first could be almost equally fruitless in its results.
– GVCOJims
6 hours ago
add a comment |
Simple analogy:
The experience of watching someone drive (a car) for 1000 years can never compare to actually driving by yourself for 1 hour.
Simple analogy:
The experience of watching someone drive (a car) for 1000 years can never compare to actually driving by yourself for 1 hour.
answered Apr 15 at 2:04
Krizalid_13190Krizalid_13190
60617
60617
I felt that @Erik had a slightly better answer in that I, also, feel both are required. While the above is true, I felt that trying to drive without watching/learning about driving first could be almost equally fruitless in its results.
– GVCOJims
6 hours ago
add a comment |
I felt that @Erik had a slightly better answer in that I, also, feel both are required. While the above is true, I felt that trying to drive without watching/learning about driving first could be almost equally fruitless in its results.
– GVCOJims
6 hours ago
I felt that @Erik had a slightly better answer in that I, also, feel both are required. While the above is true, I felt that trying to drive without watching/learning about driving first could be almost equally fruitless in its results.
– GVCOJims
6 hours ago
I felt that @Erik had a slightly better answer in that I, also, feel both are required. While the above is true, I felt that trying to drive without watching/learning about driving first could be almost equally fruitless in its results.
– GVCOJims
6 hours ago
add a comment |
Going canonical: Meditation involves samadhi (tranquil absorption) and sati (mindful awareness).
When you investigate a phenomena (breath for example) with this state of mind, depending upon the strength of your mindfulness you will see aspects of the working of the mind itself.
Almost like seeing through the corner of your mind, you see how the mind itself works. And by virtue of seeing that you might see how reality is- this could come from different angles (impermanence, fabricated nature, dependent arising)- our mind releases a little bit "ahh this is silly, why am I so worried about this!".
But those are names we use to convey our experiences. No amount of scholarly dissection of those names will help our mind release it. Only direct, real time, seeing would. Meditation develops the skill and arena for such insights.
This seeing the working of the mind does not need a conceptual framework. But certain conceptual framework (the optimal way to nail a hammer) will help you hammer it deeper and better. But it relies on your experiential understanding of hammering a nail itself. The eight fold path is such a conceptual framework which points us in the general direction of these realizations.
New contributor
add a comment |
Going canonical: Meditation involves samadhi (tranquil absorption) and sati (mindful awareness).
When you investigate a phenomena (breath for example) with this state of mind, depending upon the strength of your mindfulness you will see aspects of the working of the mind itself.
Almost like seeing through the corner of your mind, you see how the mind itself works. And by virtue of seeing that you might see how reality is- this could come from different angles (impermanence, fabricated nature, dependent arising)- our mind releases a little bit "ahh this is silly, why am I so worried about this!".
But those are names we use to convey our experiences. No amount of scholarly dissection of those names will help our mind release it. Only direct, real time, seeing would. Meditation develops the skill and arena for such insights.
This seeing the working of the mind does not need a conceptual framework. But certain conceptual framework (the optimal way to nail a hammer) will help you hammer it deeper and better. But it relies on your experiential understanding of hammering a nail itself. The eight fold path is such a conceptual framework which points us in the general direction of these realizations.
New contributor
add a comment |
Going canonical: Meditation involves samadhi (tranquil absorption) and sati (mindful awareness).
When you investigate a phenomena (breath for example) with this state of mind, depending upon the strength of your mindfulness you will see aspects of the working of the mind itself.
Almost like seeing through the corner of your mind, you see how the mind itself works. And by virtue of seeing that you might see how reality is- this could come from different angles (impermanence, fabricated nature, dependent arising)- our mind releases a little bit "ahh this is silly, why am I so worried about this!".
But those are names we use to convey our experiences. No amount of scholarly dissection of those names will help our mind release it. Only direct, real time, seeing would. Meditation develops the skill and arena for such insights.
This seeing the working of the mind does not need a conceptual framework. But certain conceptual framework (the optimal way to nail a hammer) will help you hammer it deeper and better. But it relies on your experiential understanding of hammering a nail itself. The eight fold path is such a conceptual framework which points us in the general direction of these realizations.
New contributor
Going canonical: Meditation involves samadhi (tranquil absorption) and sati (mindful awareness).
When you investigate a phenomena (breath for example) with this state of mind, depending upon the strength of your mindfulness you will see aspects of the working of the mind itself.
Almost like seeing through the corner of your mind, you see how the mind itself works. And by virtue of seeing that you might see how reality is- this could come from different angles (impermanence, fabricated nature, dependent arising)- our mind releases a little bit "ahh this is silly, why am I so worried about this!".
But those are names we use to convey our experiences. No amount of scholarly dissection of those names will help our mind release it. Only direct, real time, seeing would. Meditation develops the skill and arena for such insights.
This seeing the working of the mind does not need a conceptual framework. But certain conceptual framework (the optimal way to nail a hammer) will help you hammer it deeper and better. But it relies on your experiential understanding of hammering a nail itself. The eight fold path is such a conceptual framework which points us in the general direction of these realizations.
New contributor
New contributor
answered Apr 14 at 16:39
NVARNVAR
211
211
New contributor
New contributor
add a comment |
add a comment |
Its like this.Say you face a problem with the direct experience of a certain feeling ,thus you decided to formulate a new meditation concept where you contemplate that feeling.
Direct experience is to investigate the true nature of reality its subjective quality
.In hammering nails one will experience nailing
Conceptual knowledge comes about as a result of problems faced when having a direct experience.
If the nail gets bent then one decides to hammer a bit slowly next time.
A quibble. I would question whether the phrase 'its subjective quality' is correct here. It might suggest Reality is an object with a subjective aspect. .
– PeterJ
2 days ago
Its quality is experienced subjectively is what I meant.
– Omar Boshra
2 days ago
This is what I thought you meant. I would suggest that 'Subjective qualities' are rather mundane things and meditation takes us beyond them. Indeed. 'subjective quialites' are exactly what we are trying to transcend. But I see this may be just matter of terminology. ,.
– PeterJ
2 days ago
I agree regarding transcendence ,but its merely the result.The message is that there is nothing...absolutely nothing but the quality and that is the end of suffering.
– Omar Boshra
2 days ago
1
Yes. its no problem .Our disagreement seems to be of a high caliber it has a sophistication ,knowing this one is not bothered and simply learns from the other :).
– Omar Boshra
2 days ago
|
show 2 more comments
Its like this.Say you face a problem with the direct experience of a certain feeling ,thus you decided to formulate a new meditation concept where you contemplate that feeling.
Direct experience is to investigate the true nature of reality its subjective quality
.In hammering nails one will experience nailing
Conceptual knowledge comes about as a result of problems faced when having a direct experience.
If the nail gets bent then one decides to hammer a bit slowly next time.
A quibble. I would question whether the phrase 'its subjective quality' is correct here. It might suggest Reality is an object with a subjective aspect. .
– PeterJ
2 days ago
Its quality is experienced subjectively is what I meant.
– Omar Boshra
2 days ago
This is what I thought you meant. I would suggest that 'Subjective qualities' are rather mundane things and meditation takes us beyond them. Indeed. 'subjective quialites' are exactly what we are trying to transcend. But I see this may be just matter of terminology. ,.
– PeterJ
2 days ago
I agree regarding transcendence ,but its merely the result.The message is that there is nothing...absolutely nothing but the quality and that is the end of suffering.
– Omar Boshra
2 days ago
1
Yes. its no problem .Our disagreement seems to be of a high caliber it has a sophistication ,knowing this one is not bothered and simply learns from the other :).
– Omar Boshra
2 days ago
|
show 2 more comments
Its like this.Say you face a problem with the direct experience of a certain feeling ,thus you decided to formulate a new meditation concept where you contemplate that feeling.
Direct experience is to investigate the true nature of reality its subjective quality
.In hammering nails one will experience nailing
Conceptual knowledge comes about as a result of problems faced when having a direct experience.
If the nail gets bent then one decides to hammer a bit slowly next time.
Its like this.Say you face a problem with the direct experience of a certain feeling ,thus you decided to formulate a new meditation concept where you contemplate that feeling.
Direct experience is to investigate the true nature of reality its subjective quality
.In hammering nails one will experience nailing
Conceptual knowledge comes about as a result of problems faced when having a direct experience.
If the nail gets bent then one decides to hammer a bit slowly next time.
answered Apr 14 at 14:38
Omar BoshraOmar Boshra
1348
1348
A quibble. I would question whether the phrase 'its subjective quality' is correct here. It might suggest Reality is an object with a subjective aspect. .
– PeterJ
2 days ago
Its quality is experienced subjectively is what I meant.
– Omar Boshra
2 days ago
This is what I thought you meant. I would suggest that 'Subjective qualities' are rather mundane things and meditation takes us beyond them. Indeed. 'subjective quialites' are exactly what we are trying to transcend. But I see this may be just matter of terminology. ,.
– PeterJ
2 days ago
I agree regarding transcendence ,but its merely the result.The message is that there is nothing...absolutely nothing but the quality and that is the end of suffering.
– Omar Boshra
2 days ago
1
Yes. its no problem .Our disagreement seems to be of a high caliber it has a sophistication ,knowing this one is not bothered and simply learns from the other :).
– Omar Boshra
2 days ago
|
show 2 more comments
A quibble. I would question whether the phrase 'its subjective quality' is correct here. It might suggest Reality is an object with a subjective aspect. .
– PeterJ
2 days ago
Its quality is experienced subjectively is what I meant.
– Omar Boshra
2 days ago
This is what I thought you meant. I would suggest that 'Subjective qualities' are rather mundane things and meditation takes us beyond them. Indeed. 'subjective quialites' are exactly what we are trying to transcend. But I see this may be just matter of terminology. ,.
– PeterJ
2 days ago
I agree regarding transcendence ,but its merely the result.The message is that there is nothing...absolutely nothing but the quality and that is the end of suffering.
– Omar Boshra
2 days ago
1
Yes. its no problem .Our disagreement seems to be of a high caliber it has a sophistication ,knowing this one is not bothered and simply learns from the other :).
– Omar Boshra
2 days ago
A quibble. I would question whether the phrase 'its subjective quality' is correct here. It might suggest Reality is an object with a subjective aspect. .
– PeterJ
2 days ago
A quibble. I would question whether the phrase 'its subjective quality' is correct here. It might suggest Reality is an object with a subjective aspect. .
– PeterJ
2 days ago
Its quality is experienced subjectively is what I meant.
– Omar Boshra
2 days ago
Its quality is experienced subjectively is what I meant.
– Omar Boshra
2 days ago
This is what I thought you meant. I would suggest that 'Subjective qualities' are rather mundane things and meditation takes us beyond them. Indeed. 'subjective quialites' are exactly what we are trying to transcend. But I see this may be just matter of terminology. ,.
– PeterJ
2 days ago
This is what I thought you meant. I would suggest that 'Subjective qualities' are rather mundane things and meditation takes us beyond them. Indeed. 'subjective quialites' are exactly what we are trying to transcend. But I see this may be just matter of terminology. ,.
– PeterJ
2 days ago
I agree regarding transcendence ,but its merely the result.The message is that there is nothing...absolutely nothing but the quality and that is the end of suffering.
– Omar Boshra
2 days ago
I agree regarding transcendence ,but its merely the result.The message is that there is nothing...absolutely nothing but the quality and that is the end of suffering.
– Omar Boshra
2 days ago
1
1
Yes. its no problem .Our disagreement seems to be of a high caliber it has a sophistication ,knowing this one is not bothered and simply learns from the other :).
– Omar Boshra
2 days ago
Yes. its no problem .Our disagreement seems to be of a high caliber it has a sophistication ,knowing this one is not bothered and simply learns from the other :).
– Omar Boshra
2 days ago
|
show 2 more comments
The question is a little muddled for a clear answer. Or, at least, that's my excuse.
Direct experience is unmediated so is non-sensory. Practice increases knowledge of meditation if all goes well but meditation takes us beyond experience and the experience-experiencer-experienced distinctions so direct experience is not the end of the story. As the Upanishds ask, 'Who is there to experience the experiencer?'
Meditation has no topic as such, other than finding out who you are. In the end this not about experience but about being.
This would be why the claim of Jesus and Al-Hallaj is not 'I know the truth' but 'I am Truth'. A relevant comment from Imam Ali, the first Shia Imam, may be, 'Why dost the reckon thyself a puny being when within thee the universe is enfolded.' Meditation takes us beyond the experiences of puny beings, direct or otherwise.
add a comment |
The question is a little muddled for a clear answer. Or, at least, that's my excuse.
Direct experience is unmediated so is non-sensory. Practice increases knowledge of meditation if all goes well but meditation takes us beyond experience and the experience-experiencer-experienced distinctions so direct experience is not the end of the story. As the Upanishds ask, 'Who is there to experience the experiencer?'
Meditation has no topic as such, other than finding out who you are. In the end this not about experience but about being.
This would be why the claim of Jesus and Al-Hallaj is not 'I know the truth' but 'I am Truth'. A relevant comment from Imam Ali, the first Shia Imam, may be, 'Why dost the reckon thyself a puny being when within thee the universe is enfolded.' Meditation takes us beyond the experiences of puny beings, direct or otherwise.
add a comment |
The question is a little muddled for a clear answer. Or, at least, that's my excuse.
Direct experience is unmediated so is non-sensory. Practice increases knowledge of meditation if all goes well but meditation takes us beyond experience and the experience-experiencer-experienced distinctions so direct experience is not the end of the story. As the Upanishds ask, 'Who is there to experience the experiencer?'
Meditation has no topic as such, other than finding out who you are. In the end this not about experience but about being.
This would be why the claim of Jesus and Al-Hallaj is not 'I know the truth' but 'I am Truth'. A relevant comment from Imam Ali, the first Shia Imam, may be, 'Why dost the reckon thyself a puny being when within thee the universe is enfolded.' Meditation takes us beyond the experiences of puny beings, direct or otherwise.
The question is a little muddled for a clear answer. Or, at least, that's my excuse.
Direct experience is unmediated so is non-sensory. Practice increases knowledge of meditation if all goes well but meditation takes us beyond experience and the experience-experiencer-experienced distinctions so direct experience is not the end of the story. As the Upanishds ask, 'Who is there to experience the experiencer?'
Meditation has no topic as such, other than finding out who you are. In the end this not about experience but about being.
This would be why the claim of Jesus and Al-Hallaj is not 'I know the truth' but 'I am Truth'. A relevant comment from Imam Ali, the first Shia Imam, may be, 'Why dost the reckon thyself a puny being when within thee the universe is enfolded.' Meditation takes us beyond the experiences of puny beings, direct or otherwise.
answered 2 days ago
PeterJPeterJ
71518
71518
add a comment |
add a comment |
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