Can anyone precisely describe what it means (or feels like) to play exactly what your “inner ear” is hearing?How can I learn to play vibraphone like Gary Burton?What scales can I play over a A 13 flat ninth chord?In jazz, can anyone play any song?Guitar player, music theory and ear training enthusiast. I love to learn what other great players play

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Can anyone precisely describe what it means (or feels like) to play exactly what your “inner ear” is hearing?


How can I learn to play vibraphone like Gary Burton?What scales can I play over a A 13 flat ninth chord?In jazz, can anyone play any song?Guitar player, music theory and ear training enthusiast. I love to learn what other great players play













7















I've been improvising jazz and other styles on piano for decades, and yet there is still a very significant amount of my improvisation which is based on physical patterns developed over the years, licks I've accumulated, etc.



Is someone on the level of a John Coltrane or Bill Evans or Wynton Marsalis always or even sometimes playing precisely and exactly what their inner ear is telling them to play? I know Bird had a fantastic ear and yet he still uses tons of stock licks... well, not stock licks. Licks he invented!



Thoughts? This is a mirage I've been chasing forever...










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  • 5





    A good exercise (that I think I picked up from Adam Neely) to get away from playing patterns that are familiar to your hands, is to sing the notes while you're playing. It will slow you down, but it will force you to think about each note before you play it, and choose the notes deliberately, resulting in a more musically meaningful improvisation.

    – Your Uncle Bob
    yesterday







  • 2





    Why would playing what your ear tells you to mean not using patterns and licks? Your ear can tell you to play an appropriate pattern or lick...

    – topo morto
    yesterday






  • 5





    What all musicians strive to do is erase the barrier between your heart and the outside world. Surely as spontaneously as you speak, speaking through music feels the same way.

    – jjmusicnotes
    yesterday






  • 1





    @b3ko -- you need to check out some George Benson, then....

    – David Bowling
    yesterday






  • 1





    @DavidBowling - you beat me to it - I just woke up! Obviously living in the wrong part of the world.

    – Tim
    20 hours ago















7















I've been improvising jazz and other styles on piano for decades, and yet there is still a very significant amount of my improvisation which is based on physical patterns developed over the years, licks I've accumulated, etc.



Is someone on the level of a John Coltrane or Bill Evans or Wynton Marsalis always or even sometimes playing precisely and exactly what their inner ear is telling them to play? I know Bird had a fantastic ear and yet he still uses tons of stock licks... well, not stock licks. Licks he invented!



Thoughts? This is a mirage I've been chasing forever...










share|improve this question









New contributor




Bruce Kamolnick is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.















  • 5





    A good exercise (that I think I picked up from Adam Neely) to get away from playing patterns that are familiar to your hands, is to sing the notes while you're playing. It will slow you down, but it will force you to think about each note before you play it, and choose the notes deliberately, resulting in a more musically meaningful improvisation.

    – Your Uncle Bob
    yesterday







  • 2





    Why would playing what your ear tells you to mean not using patterns and licks? Your ear can tell you to play an appropriate pattern or lick...

    – topo morto
    yesterday






  • 5





    What all musicians strive to do is erase the barrier between your heart and the outside world. Surely as spontaneously as you speak, speaking through music feels the same way.

    – jjmusicnotes
    yesterday






  • 1





    @b3ko -- you need to check out some George Benson, then....

    – David Bowling
    yesterday






  • 1





    @DavidBowling - you beat me to it - I just woke up! Obviously living in the wrong part of the world.

    – Tim
    20 hours ago













7












7








7


1






I've been improvising jazz and other styles on piano for decades, and yet there is still a very significant amount of my improvisation which is based on physical patterns developed over the years, licks I've accumulated, etc.



Is someone on the level of a John Coltrane or Bill Evans or Wynton Marsalis always or even sometimes playing precisely and exactly what their inner ear is telling them to play? I know Bird had a fantastic ear and yet he still uses tons of stock licks... well, not stock licks. Licks he invented!



Thoughts? This is a mirage I've been chasing forever...










share|improve this question









New contributor




Bruce Kamolnick is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.












I've been improvising jazz and other styles on piano for decades, and yet there is still a very significant amount of my improvisation which is based on physical patterns developed over the years, licks I've accumulated, etc.



Is someone on the level of a John Coltrane or Bill Evans or Wynton Marsalis always or even sometimes playing precisely and exactly what their inner ear is telling them to play? I know Bird had a fantastic ear and yet he still uses tons of stock licks... well, not stock licks. Licks he invented!



Thoughts? This is a mirage I've been chasing forever...







jazz improvisation






share|improve this question









New contributor




Bruce Kamolnick is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question









New contributor




Bruce Kamolnick is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 2 hours ago









JYelton

224211




224211






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asked yesterday









Bruce KamolnickBruce Kamolnick

494




494




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New contributor





Bruce Kamolnick is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






Bruce Kamolnick is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







  • 5





    A good exercise (that I think I picked up from Adam Neely) to get away from playing patterns that are familiar to your hands, is to sing the notes while you're playing. It will slow you down, but it will force you to think about each note before you play it, and choose the notes deliberately, resulting in a more musically meaningful improvisation.

    – Your Uncle Bob
    yesterday







  • 2





    Why would playing what your ear tells you to mean not using patterns and licks? Your ear can tell you to play an appropriate pattern or lick...

    – topo morto
    yesterday






  • 5





    What all musicians strive to do is erase the barrier between your heart and the outside world. Surely as spontaneously as you speak, speaking through music feels the same way.

    – jjmusicnotes
    yesterday






  • 1





    @b3ko -- you need to check out some George Benson, then....

    – David Bowling
    yesterday






  • 1





    @DavidBowling - you beat me to it - I just woke up! Obviously living in the wrong part of the world.

    – Tim
    20 hours ago












  • 5





    A good exercise (that I think I picked up from Adam Neely) to get away from playing patterns that are familiar to your hands, is to sing the notes while you're playing. It will slow you down, but it will force you to think about each note before you play it, and choose the notes deliberately, resulting in a more musically meaningful improvisation.

    – Your Uncle Bob
    yesterday







  • 2





    Why would playing what your ear tells you to mean not using patterns and licks? Your ear can tell you to play an appropriate pattern or lick...

    – topo morto
    yesterday






  • 5





    What all musicians strive to do is erase the barrier between your heart and the outside world. Surely as spontaneously as you speak, speaking through music feels the same way.

    – jjmusicnotes
    yesterday






  • 1





    @b3ko -- you need to check out some George Benson, then....

    – David Bowling
    yesterday






  • 1





    @DavidBowling - you beat me to it - I just woke up! Obviously living in the wrong part of the world.

    – Tim
    20 hours ago







5




5





A good exercise (that I think I picked up from Adam Neely) to get away from playing patterns that are familiar to your hands, is to sing the notes while you're playing. It will slow you down, but it will force you to think about each note before you play it, and choose the notes deliberately, resulting in a more musically meaningful improvisation.

– Your Uncle Bob
yesterday






A good exercise (that I think I picked up from Adam Neely) to get away from playing patterns that are familiar to your hands, is to sing the notes while you're playing. It will slow you down, but it will force you to think about each note before you play it, and choose the notes deliberately, resulting in a more musically meaningful improvisation.

– Your Uncle Bob
yesterday





2




2





Why would playing what your ear tells you to mean not using patterns and licks? Your ear can tell you to play an appropriate pattern or lick...

– topo morto
yesterday





Why would playing what your ear tells you to mean not using patterns and licks? Your ear can tell you to play an appropriate pattern or lick...

– topo morto
yesterday




5




5





What all musicians strive to do is erase the barrier between your heart and the outside world. Surely as spontaneously as you speak, speaking through music feels the same way.

– jjmusicnotes
yesterday





What all musicians strive to do is erase the barrier between your heart and the outside world. Surely as spontaneously as you speak, speaking through music feels the same way.

– jjmusicnotes
yesterday




1




1





@b3ko -- you need to check out some George Benson, then....

– David Bowling
yesterday





@b3ko -- you need to check out some George Benson, then....

– David Bowling
yesterday




1




1





@DavidBowling - you beat me to it - I just woke up! Obviously living in the wrong part of the world.

– Tim
20 hours ago





@DavidBowling - you beat me to it - I just woke up! Obviously living in the wrong part of the world.

– Tim
20 hours ago










5 Answers
5






active

oldest

votes


















9














If by "inner ear" you mean the ability to improvise without actually hearing what you play, and still knowing pretty much exactly what it sounds like, then nothing even close to John Coltrane's skill level is needed. Even I can do that easily. If you can sing an improvised line and then repeat the same line correctly with your instrument, then you played what your inner ear told you. Right? But if by "inner ear" you mean some magical special quality of being able to draw from an inexplicable source of new kinds of things that were previousy not even in your vocabulary, then I don't think Coltrane did that. In his playing he utilized things that he had mastered through practicing.



I think the "inner ear" ideal is a myth and a misconception. As a human you are a psycho-physical system, and the things you play when improvising (or otherwise) are a result of many interdependent physical and psychological parts and layers, including fingers, arms, nerves, memory, hopes and fears and everything. You can even include the instrument, the environment, the acoustics and the audience in the system. Good musicians seek inspiration and feedback and feelings from many things you might consider external factors, but they do affect the result, it's just natural, and it's nothing to be ashamed of. Whatever the chain of events was that led to the music you produced, it's still your music. What makes you think you could know the chain of events behind Coltrane's music, and which of those events happened inside some mystical "inner ear" area, and which of them happened outside of it?



However, since you posted this question, there might be something you're seeking that could be improved, and that's expanding your perspective when playing. In terms of levels of abstraction, what is the "domain" you're operating in? What things do you think you're allowed to change - what is your musical device? Instead of just obeying plans coming from a higher level, you could start to take ownership of the higher-level things and start playing with them as your creative toys.



For the sake of argument, let's assume that there's this kind of a hierarchy of abstractions, from physical to logical and abstract. This is from a Western style "harmony and notes" way of thinking, and there are many more aspects to the final musical outcome like the whole world of rhythm, rhythmic tension and resolution and ambivalence etc., timbres, ... lyrics and words and all that. But each of those areas and musical dimensions has a similar structure of layers between concrete and abstract. I'm sure people have opinions on the validity of this structure, but the exact model is not relevant. You can imagine your own better model.



  • physical finger and arm movements

  • __< exact notes

  • ____< melodic+harmonic+rhythmic "implementation", chord voicings

  • ______< chord and voice movement

  • ________< harmonic turnarounds, "what is the key/mode and on which side are we leaning"

As you know, these layers are all inter-connected. If you change a physical finger movement, it may change the note, which may change the chords and turn the harmony around. Or it may just sound like a mistake. Each layer also adds details that can be very important to the whole, but that the higher layer doesn't say anything about. The chord progression doesn't say anything about exact picking/fingering patterns or even voicings, etc.



Now the important question is, in which of those layers are you able to operate fluently? What is your musical domain? Do you think that you're not allowed to change the chords? The turnarounds? You say that you play too much pre-learned patterns ... but on which layer of abstraction are those patterns? Maybe you could play almost the same patterns or licks, but with different chords and timing? Can you play a minor lick in a major key?



I think it's a good analogy to think of improvisation as live arranging and composing. Which layers do arrangers and composers operate on? Step up from the lower levels of hierarchy! :) Don't think like a worker or soldier blindly obeying plans and instructions coming from higher up, think like the planner. Maybe even like the board of directors! :) Start playing around with chord progressions, and start setting musical goals in terms of what happens on the more abstract level. Sometimes you might settle for the exact original written chords for various reasons, but it should be your own informed decision. You should have a sense of what is essential for the tune, and the particular feeling and interpretation you want to deliver. If your reason for using the exact written chords verbatim is that "I'm scared and I don't know what might happen if I changed them", then that's a weakness you should start improving. The same thing applies to all other aspects of musical expression, but for some reason I've noticed that harmony is often an area where players fall short.



This is a good place to mention scales and the "chord-scale system" thing that was talked about recently. Scales are lower-level musical objects! If you're a good jazz improviser, you have to think higher than that. Even if you knew how to apply the chord-scale system that gives you a list of possible scales, which one do you select? Why and using what information? Randomly? Think higher! :) So, to become a good jazz improviser, you have to become very fluent in the higher layers. Make your own voice leadings and chord progressions. Play the same melody 10 times with different chords every time. Can you do that? The primary role of jazz comping is not to provide "harmonic context", which locks down chord choices and limits the soloist's creativity. Comping provides rhythm, so the soloist can invent her own chords. And she can do that, because she has mastered the higher levels of musical elements.



Maybe I should emphasize that you don't toy around with chords just to show off that you can. That's what junior pop/jazz school students do, and it belongs to that phase of musical development. (Or at least I hope they play around with chords and don't just apply these chord-scale systems brainlessly with the sole purpose of avoiding blatantly wrong notes.) You develop the higher-level skills to know what is important and what isn't, and to know how to create tension and release, expectation and surprise. You're telling a story, or more like, paraphrasing a story. How do you know which notes to emphasize? If you can use only two notes, which ones do you pick, and what's your goal in selecting exactly those notes?






share|improve this answer

























  • maybe they think even like a shareholder ...

    – Albrecht Hügli
    21 hours ago











  • Changing the chords/harmony to a piece is all well and good, and can be done so the melody still works over them. However, when that's done, it's going to produce improv that will be different from any that would fit the original chords. There aren't that many phrases which will fit over multiple different chords or their sequences.

    – Tim
    19 hours ago











  • @Tim the idea is that you must be able to improvise your own chords (and rhythm), and play phrases that outline those new improvised chords. But anyway, I'm telling the OP to become a better improviser by diving into that world and starting to play around to learn how it works, and how the phrase notes and chords and everything are connected, and what happens on various levels when you change things. Lift up your perspective. Move to management and higher, if you feel you're stuck on the lowest levels of the organization. ;)

    – piiperi
    18 hours ago












  • I'm fluent in all that, but bottomline I think my ear just isn't as strong as it should be. For example: I really should be able to sing whatever I play (within reason) before I play it, and I can't. It is probably as simple as that. BUT YES - there are many layers and subtleties to Spontaneous Composition. And you have to have a story to tell. AND it don't mean a thing if it aint got that swing!

    – Bruce Kamolnick
    6 hours ago


















4














You really need to ask the folk who play like this. And a lot of them probably won't be able to explain. The deeper one goes into this sort of playing, the more 'reality' is left behind. By this, I mean the conscious level of thinking. I don't mean players stop thinking, I do mean they think in a different way.



Yes, of course they'll use stock phrases. We all do, whether we're talking or playing. Some use more stock phrases: probably because they have more to pull out of the bag, some because they know what will fit better at particular points.



To further explain it - when you're speaking, you have a rough idea of what's going to come out, but the exact phrasing may vary. Other times, you compose the exact words, and that's what comes out. But mostly, you're not acutely aware of what's happening. And, it works!



A lot of players even have at least an idea of the whole journey of a verse, culminating in the final phrase, which has been their target all along, and the pre-amble was mostly pre-planned in some way - sometimes vague, sometimes exactly thought out. But that is always subject to change, as the best players are listening to the rest of the players, and will react to anything they may pick up on, on the way.






share|improve this answer























  • Yes, well said. I met a player from Sun Ra's Arkestra once (at their show) and he told me something like: You know you're in the right space when you have absolutely no idea what you're doing." That is The Zone...and it comes and goes at will, but it is a nice place to be.

    – Bruce Kamolnick
    11 hours ago


















3














The question is:



What do you mean with the „inner ear”? Is it just a data processing system? Or is it an instrument of our soul? and if yes ... what is soul?



My inner ear is a cognitive instance selecting and assembling among a ressource of melodic and rhythmic patterns, of intervals, chords, melodic formulas and clauses and licks and tricks ( which are the sum of my musical training and experience).



As my inner ear is also a part of the cognitive instance that reassembles and reconstructs existing patterns to new combinations (subjectively) and never known or never heard “original” patterns then the inner ear is a part of the creative mind for new inventions.



While this ressource or with an other word our repertoire inhibits our possibilities of responding in a "creative" way - we are becoming just reproductive - it provides us bigger abilities to respond and improvise fluently and automatically.



(While the lack of knowledge and experience of me as a beginner or amateur gave me a bigger chance to respond „originally“. The less educated we are the more possibilities we have to be creative.)



So if we compare our intuition to play the right chord with a data processing system we understand that the inner ear is responsible to choose the right chord and to decide which lick will fit.



For inventing an originally new pattern in a solo the time is usually too short. In this case you play a lick (you can prepare this before of course at home).






share|improve this answer
































    1














    I agree that "Inner Ear" is and ideal, but it also has to be said, that the more we practice improvisation the closer usually we get to that ideal. So it means something important we strive for but maybe it's not well defined.



    To me this is more of a technical aspect of improvisation - how precise/successful is our brain-body apparatus in translating the rough abstracts and ideas that flow in our heads into musical statements.



    But the art if improvisation is more about what actually IS in your head, how rich is your vocabulary and how personal, inventive and deep in the emotional sense and revealing in the intellectual sense your "content" is. That's what makes Coltrane and Davis different from your average professional jazz musician with well trained improvisation apparatus.






    share|improve this answer























    • The most inventive performer out there will sound like crap if he doesn't fit in with the support chord progressions being played.

      – Carl Witthoft
      14 hours ago











    • Where do I suggest otherwise?

      – Jarek.D
      13 hours ago











    • I agree that reducing the space, if you will, between - let's say, your inner thoughts, your mysterious muse, and what you can actually express on your ax, that is the goal. And yes, there are plenty of brilliant musicians doing just that who are not engaging. No X factor.

      – Bruce Kamolnick
      11 hours ago











    • LET ME TRY AGAIN. I agree that reducing the space between your inner thoughts, your mysterious muse, and what you can actually express on your ax, is the goal. Hendrix is an example of someone who often seems to make that direct link. And yes, having the abilities is not the same thing as having something to say, or something that pulls people in. Well, let's agree on this: better to be "telling a great story" with your playing, even if some of it is physical and automatic, than to tell a boring, unimaginative story - using your perfected inner ear.

      – Bruce Kamolnick
      11 hours ago


















    0














    This is something I've been working on for years too. My philosophy is that the instrument needs to be an extension of the body much like the mouth is. So if you whistle, hum, or sing you know what I mean.



    Generally you can do these activities without thinking of scale patterns it's just inherent to us, that's what I think you mean by "inner ear". So if any song is playing we can whistle right along to it in the correct key instantaneously (assuming you're a good whistler). But what that means is you've pretty much internalized all the muscle memory necessary via your mouth for each note in your mind.



    Similarly, if you're playing piano or guitar and you're still thinking of patterns such as scales then you're not quite there yet. They only serve as training wheels for the muscle memory. I'm not quite there yet either but I'm working on it every day. And the knowledge of scales and their associated diatonic chords and beyond is a prerequisite because it can takes years to internalize the sounds.



    A few tips:

    1. Never look at your instrument, it should only be about muscle memory like touch typing on a computer.

    2. Play the same songs in all the different keys this will train your ear/fingers to be able to play any interval and chords.

    3. Figure songs out by ear, anything that you hear. Also develop the ability to know what scale degree in both melody and harmony you're listening to.






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      5 Answers
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      9














      If by "inner ear" you mean the ability to improvise without actually hearing what you play, and still knowing pretty much exactly what it sounds like, then nothing even close to John Coltrane's skill level is needed. Even I can do that easily. If you can sing an improvised line and then repeat the same line correctly with your instrument, then you played what your inner ear told you. Right? But if by "inner ear" you mean some magical special quality of being able to draw from an inexplicable source of new kinds of things that were previousy not even in your vocabulary, then I don't think Coltrane did that. In his playing he utilized things that he had mastered through practicing.



      I think the "inner ear" ideal is a myth and a misconception. As a human you are a psycho-physical system, and the things you play when improvising (or otherwise) are a result of many interdependent physical and psychological parts and layers, including fingers, arms, nerves, memory, hopes and fears and everything. You can even include the instrument, the environment, the acoustics and the audience in the system. Good musicians seek inspiration and feedback and feelings from many things you might consider external factors, but they do affect the result, it's just natural, and it's nothing to be ashamed of. Whatever the chain of events was that led to the music you produced, it's still your music. What makes you think you could know the chain of events behind Coltrane's music, and which of those events happened inside some mystical "inner ear" area, and which of them happened outside of it?



      However, since you posted this question, there might be something you're seeking that could be improved, and that's expanding your perspective when playing. In terms of levels of abstraction, what is the "domain" you're operating in? What things do you think you're allowed to change - what is your musical device? Instead of just obeying plans coming from a higher level, you could start to take ownership of the higher-level things and start playing with them as your creative toys.



      For the sake of argument, let's assume that there's this kind of a hierarchy of abstractions, from physical to logical and abstract. This is from a Western style "harmony and notes" way of thinking, and there are many more aspects to the final musical outcome like the whole world of rhythm, rhythmic tension and resolution and ambivalence etc., timbres, ... lyrics and words and all that. But each of those areas and musical dimensions has a similar structure of layers between concrete and abstract. I'm sure people have opinions on the validity of this structure, but the exact model is not relevant. You can imagine your own better model.



      • physical finger and arm movements

      • __< exact notes

      • ____< melodic+harmonic+rhythmic "implementation", chord voicings

      • ______< chord and voice movement

      • ________< harmonic turnarounds, "what is the key/mode and on which side are we leaning"

      As you know, these layers are all inter-connected. If you change a physical finger movement, it may change the note, which may change the chords and turn the harmony around. Or it may just sound like a mistake. Each layer also adds details that can be very important to the whole, but that the higher layer doesn't say anything about. The chord progression doesn't say anything about exact picking/fingering patterns or even voicings, etc.



      Now the important question is, in which of those layers are you able to operate fluently? What is your musical domain? Do you think that you're not allowed to change the chords? The turnarounds? You say that you play too much pre-learned patterns ... but on which layer of abstraction are those patterns? Maybe you could play almost the same patterns or licks, but with different chords and timing? Can you play a minor lick in a major key?



      I think it's a good analogy to think of improvisation as live arranging and composing. Which layers do arrangers and composers operate on? Step up from the lower levels of hierarchy! :) Don't think like a worker or soldier blindly obeying plans and instructions coming from higher up, think like the planner. Maybe even like the board of directors! :) Start playing around with chord progressions, and start setting musical goals in terms of what happens on the more abstract level. Sometimes you might settle for the exact original written chords for various reasons, but it should be your own informed decision. You should have a sense of what is essential for the tune, and the particular feeling and interpretation you want to deliver. If your reason for using the exact written chords verbatim is that "I'm scared and I don't know what might happen if I changed them", then that's a weakness you should start improving. The same thing applies to all other aspects of musical expression, but for some reason I've noticed that harmony is often an area where players fall short.



      This is a good place to mention scales and the "chord-scale system" thing that was talked about recently. Scales are lower-level musical objects! If you're a good jazz improviser, you have to think higher than that. Even if you knew how to apply the chord-scale system that gives you a list of possible scales, which one do you select? Why and using what information? Randomly? Think higher! :) So, to become a good jazz improviser, you have to become very fluent in the higher layers. Make your own voice leadings and chord progressions. Play the same melody 10 times with different chords every time. Can you do that? The primary role of jazz comping is not to provide "harmonic context", which locks down chord choices and limits the soloist's creativity. Comping provides rhythm, so the soloist can invent her own chords. And she can do that, because she has mastered the higher levels of musical elements.



      Maybe I should emphasize that you don't toy around with chords just to show off that you can. That's what junior pop/jazz school students do, and it belongs to that phase of musical development. (Or at least I hope they play around with chords and don't just apply these chord-scale systems brainlessly with the sole purpose of avoiding blatantly wrong notes.) You develop the higher-level skills to know what is important and what isn't, and to know how to create tension and release, expectation and surprise. You're telling a story, or more like, paraphrasing a story. How do you know which notes to emphasize? If you can use only two notes, which ones do you pick, and what's your goal in selecting exactly those notes?






      share|improve this answer

























      • maybe they think even like a shareholder ...

        – Albrecht Hügli
        21 hours ago











      • Changing the chords/harmony to a piece is all well and good, and can be done so the melody still works over them. However, when that's done, it's going to produce improv that will be different from any that would fit the original chords. There aren't that many phrases which will fit over multiple different chords or their sequences.

        – Tim
        19 hours ago











      • @Tim the idea is that you must be able to improvise your own chords (and rhythm), and play phrases that outline those new improvised chords. But anyway, I'm telling the OP to become a better improviser by diving into that world and starting to play around to learn how it works, and how the phrase notes and chords and everything are connected, and what happens on various levels when you change things. Lift up your perspective. Move to management and higher, if you feel you're stuck on the lowest levels of the organization. ;)

        – piiperi
        18 hours ago












      • I'm fluent in all that, but bottomline I think my ear just isn't as strong as it should be. For example: I really should be able to sing whatever I play (within reason) before I play it, and I can't. It is probably as simple as that. BUT YES - there are many layers and subtleties to Spontaneous Composition. And you have to have a story to tell. AND it don't mean a thing if it aint got that swing!

        – Bruce Kamolnick
        6 hours ago















      9














      If by "inner ear" you mean the ability to improvise without actually hearing what you play, and still knowing pretty much exactly what it sounds like, then nothing even close to John Coltrane's skill level is needed. Even I can do that easily. If you can sing an improvised line and then repeat the same line correctly with your instrument, then you played what your inner ear told you. Right? But if by "inner ear" you mean some magical special quality of being able to draw from an inexplicable source of new kinds of things that were previousy not even in your vocabulary, then I don't think Coltrane did that. In his playing he utilized things that he had mastered through practicing.



      I think the "inner ear" ideal is a myth and a misconception. As a human you are a psycho-physical system, and the things you play when improvising (or otherwise) are a result of many interdependent physical and psychological parts and layers, including fingers, arms, nerves, memory, hopes and fears and everything. You can even include the instrument, the environment, the acoustics and the audience in the system. Good musicians seek inspiration and feedback and feelings from many things you might consider external factors, but they do affect the result, it's just natural, and it's nothing to be ashamed of. Whatever the chain of events was that led to the music you produced, it's still your music. What makes you think you could know the chain of events behind Coltrane's music, and which of those events happened inside some mystical "inner ear" area, and which of them happened outside of it?



      However, since you posted this question, there might be something you're seeking that could be improved, and that's expanding your perspective when playing. In terms of levels of abstraction, what is the "domain" you're operating in? What things do you think you're allowed to change - what is your musical device? Instead of just obeying plans coming from a higher level, you could start to take ownership of the higher-level things and start playing with them as your creative toys.



      For the sake of argument, let's assume that there's this kind of a hierarchy of abstractions, from physical to logical and abstract. This is from a Western style "harmony and notes" way of thinking, and there are many more aspects to the final musical outcome like the whole world of rhythm, rhythmic tension and resolution and ambivalence etc., timbres, ... lyrics and words and all that. But each of those areas and musical dimensions has a similar structure of layers between concrete and abstract. I'm sure people have opinions on the validity of this structure, but the exact model is not relevant. You can imagine your own better model.



      • physical finger and arm movements

      • __< exact notes

      • ____< melodic+harmonic+rhythmic "implementation", chord voicings

      • ______< chord and voice movement

      • ________< harmonic turnarounds, "what is the key/mode and on which side are we leaning"

      As you know, these layers are all inter-connected. If you change a physical finger movement, it may change the note, which may change the chords and turn the harmony around. Or it may just sound like a mistake. Each layer also adds details that can be very important to the whole, but that the higher layer doesn't say anything about. The chord progression doesn't say anything about exact picking/fingering patterns or even voicings, etc.



      Now the important question is, in which of those layers are you able to operate fluently? What is your musical domain? Do you think that you're not allowed to change the chords? The turnarounds? You say that you play too much pre-learned patterns ... but on which layer of abstraction are those patterns? Maybe you could play almost the same patterns or licks, but with different chords and timing? Can you play a minor lick in a major key?



      I think it's a good analogy to think of improvisation as live arranging and composing. Which layers do arrangers and composers operate on? Step up from the lower levels of hierarchy! :) Don't think like a worker or soldier blindly obeying plans and instructions coming from higher up, think like the planner. Maybe even like the board of directors! :) Start playing around with chord progressions, and start setting musical goals in terms of what happens on the more abstract level. Sometimes you might settle for the exact original written chords for various reasons, but it should be your own informed decision. You should have a sense of what is essential for the tune, and the particular feeling and interpretation you want to deliver. If your reason for using the exact written chords verbatim is that "I'm scared and I don't know what might happen if I changed them", then that's a weakness you should start improving. The same thing applies to all other aspects of musical expression, but for some reason I've noticed that harmony is often an area where players fall short.



      This is a good place to mention scales and the "chord-scale system" thing that was talked about recently. Scales are lower-level musical objects! If you're a good jazz improviser, you have to think higher than that. Even if you knew how to apply the chord-scale system that gives you a list of possible scales, which one do you select? Why and using what information? Randomly? Think higher! :) So, to become a good jazz improviser, you have to become very fluent in the higher layers. Make your own voice leadings and chord progressions. Play the same melody 10 times with different chords every time. Can you do that? The primary role of jazz comping is not to provide "harmonic context", which locks down chord choices and limits the soloist's creativity. Comping provides rhythm, so the soloist can invent her own chords. And she can do that, because she has mastered the higher levels of musical elements.



      Maybe I should emphasize that you don't toy around with chords just to show off that you can. That's what junior pop/jazz school students do, and it belongs to that phase of musical development. (Or at least I hope they play around with chords and don't just apply these chord-scale systems brainlessly with the sole purpose of avoiding blatantly wrong notes.) You develop the higher-level skills to know what is important and what isn't, and to know how to create tension and release, expectation and surprise. You're telling a story, or more like, paraphrasing a story. How do you know which notes to emphasize? If you can use only two notes, which ones do you pick, and what's your goal in selecting exactly those notes?






      share|improve this answer

























      • maybe they think even like a shareholder ...

        – Albrecht Hügli
        21 hours ago











      • Changing the chords/harmony to a piece is all well and good, and can be done so the melody still works over them. However, when that's done, it's going to produce improv that will be different from any that would fit the original chords. There aren't that many phrases which will fit over multiple different chords or their sequences.

        – Tim
        19 hours ago











      • @Tim the idea is that you must be able to improvise your own chords (and rhythm), and play phrases that outline those new improvised chords. But anyway, I'm telling the OP to become a better improviser by diving into that world and starting to play around to learn how it works, and how the phrase notes and chords and everything are connected, and what happens on various levels when you change things. Lift up your perspective. Move to management and higher, if you feel you're stuck on the lowest levels of the organization. ;)

        – piiperi
        18 hours ago












      • I'm fluent in all that, but bottomline I think my ear just isn't as strong as it should be. For example: I really should be able to sing whatever I play (within reason) before I play it, and I can't. It is probably as simple as that. BUT YES - there are many layers and subtleties to Spontaneous Composition. And you have to have a story to tell. AND it don't mean a thing if it aint got that swing!

        – Bruce Kamolnick
        6 hours ago













      9












      9








      9







      If by "inner ear" you mean the ability to improvise without actually hearing what you play, and still knowing pretty much exactly what it sounds like, then nothing even close to John Coltrane's skill level is needed. Even I can do that easily. If you can sing an improvised line and then repeat the same line correctly with your instrument, then you played what your inner ear told you. Right? But if by "inner ear" you mean some magical special quality of being able to draw from an inexplicable source of new kinds of things that were previousy not even in your vocabulary, then I don't think Coltrane did that. In his playing he utilized things that he had mastered through practicing.



      I think the "inner ear" ideal is a myth and a misconception. As a human you are a psycho-physical system, and the things you play when improvising (or otherwise) are a result of many interdependent physical and psychological parts and layers, including fingers, arms, nerves, memory, hopes and fears and everything. You can even include the instrument, the environment, the acoustics and the audience in the system. Good musicians seek inspiration and feedback and feelings from many things you might consider external factors, but they do affect the result, it's just natural, and it's nothing to be ashamed of. Whatever the chain of events was that led to the music you produced, it's still your music. What makes you think you could know the chain of events behind Coltrane's music, and which of those events happened inside some mystical "inner ear" area, and which of them happened outside of it?



      However, since you posted this question, there might be something you're seeking that could be improved, and that's expanding your perspective when playing. In terms of levels of abstraction, what is the "domain" you're operating in? What things do you think you're allowed to change - what is your musical device? Instead of just obeying plans coming from a higher level, you could start to take ownership of the higher-level things and start playing with them as your creative toys.



      For the sake of argument, let's assume that there's this kind of a hierarchy of abstractions, from physical to logical and abstract. This is from a Western style "harmony and notes" way of thinking, and there are many more aspects to the final musical outcome like the whole world of rhythm, rhythmic tension and resolution and ambivalence etc., timbres, ... lyrics and words and all that. But each of those areas and musical dimensions has a similar structure of layers between concrete and abstract. I'm sure people have opinions on the validity of this structure, but the exact model is not relevant. You can imagine your own better model.



      • physical finger and arm movements

      • __< exact notes

      • ____< melodic+harmonic+rhythmic "implementation", chord voicings

      • ______< chord and voice movement

      • ________< harmonic turnarounds, "what is the key/mode and on which side are we leaning"

      As you know, these layers are all inter-connected. If you change a physical finger movement, it may change the note, which may change the chords and turn the harmony around. Or it may just sound like a mistake. Each layer also adds details that can be very important to the whole, but that the higher layer doesn't say anything about. The chord progression doesn't say anything about exact picking/fingering patterns or even voicings, etc.



      Now the important question is, in which of those layers are you able to operate fluently? What is your musical domain? Do you think that you're not allowed to change the chords? The turnarounds? You say that you play too much pre-learned patterns ... but on which layer of abstraction are those patterns? Maybe you could play almost the same patterns or licks, but with different chords and timing? Can you play a minor lick in a major key?



      I think it's a good analogy to think of improvisation as live arranging and composing. Which layers do arrangers and composers operate on? Step up from the lower levels of hierarchy! :) Don't think like a worker or soldier blindly obeying plans and instructions coming from higher up, think like the planner. Maybe even like the board of directors! :) Start playing around with chord progressions, and start setting musical goals in terms of what happens on the more abstract level. Sometimes you might settle for the exact original written chords for various reasons, but it should be your own informed decision. You should have a sense of what is essential for the tune, and the particular feeling and interpretation you want to deliver. If your reason for using the exact written chords verbatim is that "I'm scared and I don't know what might happen if I changed them", then that's a weakness you should start improving. The same thing applies to all other aspects of musical expression, but for some reason I've noticed that harmony is often an area where players fall short.



      This is a good place to mention scales and the "chord-scale system" thing that was talked about recently. Scales are lower-level musical objects! If you're a good jazz improviser, you have to think higher than that. Even if you knew how to apply the chord-scale system that gives you a list of possible scales, which one do you select? Why and using what information? Randomly? Think higher! :) So, to become a good jazz improviser, you have to become very fluent in the higher layers. Make your own voice leadings and chord progressions. Play the same melody 10 times with different chords every time. Can you do that? The primary role of jazz comping is not to provide "harmonic context", which locks down chord choices and limits the soloist's creativity. Comping provides rhythm, so the soloist can invent her own chords. And she can do that, because she has mastered the higher levels of musical elements.



      Maybe I should emphasize that you don't toy around with chords just to show off that you can. That's what junior pop/jazz school students do, and it belongs to that phase of musical development. (Or at least I hope they play around with chords and don't just apply these chord-scale systems brainlessly with the sole purpose of avoiding blatantly wrong notes.) You develop the higher-level skills to know what is important and what isn't, and to know how to create tension and release, expectation and surprise. You're telling a story, or more like, paraphrasing a story. How do you know which notes to emphasize? If you can use only two notes, which ones do you pick, and what's your goal in selecting exactly those notes?






      share|improve this answer















      If by "inner ear" you mean the ability to improvise without actually hearing what you play, and still knowing pretty much exactly what it sounds like, then nothing even close to John Coltrane's skill level is needed. Even I can do that easily. If you can sing an improvised line and then repeat the same line correctly with your instrument, then you played what your inner ear told you. Right? But if by "inner ear" you mean some magical special quality of being able to draw from an inexplicable source of new kinds of things that were previousy not even in your vocabulary, then I don't think Coltrane did that. In his playing he utilized things that he had mastered through practicing.



      I think the "inner ear" ideal is a myth and a misconception. As a human you are a psycho-physical system, and the things you play when improvising (or otherwise) are a result of many interdependent physical and psychological parts and layers, including fingers, arms, nerves, memory, hopes and fears and everything. You can even include the instrument, the environment, the acoustics and the audience in the system. Good musicians seek inspiration and feedback and feelings from many things you might consider external factors, but they do affect the result, it's just natural, and it's nothing to be ashamed of. Whatever the chain of events was that led to the music you produced, it's still your music. What makes you think you could know the chain of events behind Coltrane's music, and which of those events happened inside some mystical "inner ear" area, and which of them happened outside of it?



      However, since you posted this question, there might be something you're seeking that could be improved, and that's expanding your perspective when playing. In terms of levels of abstraction, what is the "domain" you're operating in? What things do you think you're allowed to change - what is your musical device? Instead of just obeying plans coming from a higher level, you could start to take ownership of the higher-level things and start playing with them as your creative toys.



      For the sake of argument, let's assume that there's this kind of a hierarchy of abstractions, from physical to logical and abstract. This is from a Western style "harmony and notes" way of thinking, and there are many more aspects to the final musical outcome like the whole world of rhythm, rhythmic tension and resolution and ambivalence etc., timbres, ... lyrics and words and all that. But each of those areas and musical dimensions has a similar structure of layers between concrete and abstract. I'm sure people have opinions on the validity of this structure, but the exact model is not relevant. You can imagine your own better model.



      • physical finger and arm movements

      • __< exact notes

      • ____< melodic+harmonic+rhythmic "implementation", chord voicings

      • ______< chord and voice movement

      • ________< harmonic turnarounds, "what is the key/mode and on which side are we leaning"

      As you know, these layers are all inter-connected. If you change a physical finger movement, it may change the note, which may change the chords and turn the harmony around. Or it may just sound like a mistake. Each layer also adds details that can be very important to the whole, but that the higher layer doesn't say anything about. The chord progression doesn't say anything about exact picking/fingering patterns or even voicings, etc.



      Now the important question is, in which of those layers are you able to operate fluently? What is your musical domain? Do you think that you're not allowed to change the chords? The turnarounds? You say that you play too much pre-learned patterns ... but on which layer of abstraction are those patterns? Maybe you could play almost the same patterns or licks, but with different chords and timing? Can you play a minor lick in a major key?



      I think it's a good analogy to think of improvisation as live arranging and composing. Which layers do arrangers and composers operate on? Step up from the lower levels of hierarchy! :) Don't think like a worker or soldier blindly obeying plans and instructions coming from higher up, think like the planner. Maybe even like the board of directors! :) Start playing around with chord progressions, and start setting musical goals in terms of what happens on the more abstract level. Sometimes you might settle for the exact original written chords for various reasons, but it should be your own informed decision. You should have a sense of what is essential for the tune, and the particular feeling and interpretation you want to deliver. If your reason for using the exact written chords verbatim is that "I'm scared and I don't know what might happen if I changed them", then that's a weakness you should start improving. The same thing applies to all other aspects of musical expression, but for some reason I've noticed that harmony is often an area where players fall short.



      This is a good place to mention scales and the "chord-scale system" thing that was talked about recently. Scales are lower-level musical objects! If you're a good jazz improviser, you have to think higher than that. Even if you knew how to apply the chord-scale system that gives you a list of possible scales, which one do you select? Why and using what information? Randomly? Think higher! :) So, to become a good jazz improviser, you have to become very fluent in the higher layers. Make your own voice leadings and chord progressions. Play the same melody 10 times with different chords every time. Can you do that? The primary role of jazz comping is not to provide "harmonic context", which locks down chord choices and limits the soloist's creativity. Comping provides rhythm, so the soloist can invent her own chords. And she can do that, because she has mastered the higher levels of musical elements.



      Maybe I should emphasize that you don't toy around with chords just to show off that you can. That's what junior pop/jazz school students do, and it belongs to that phase of musical development. (Or at least I hope they play around with chords and don't just apply these chord-scale systems brainlessly with the sole purpose of avoiding blatantly wrong notes.) You develop the higher-level skills to know what is important and what isn't, and to know how to create tension and release, expectation and surprise. You're telling a story, or more like, paraphrasing a story. How do you know which notes to emphasize? If you can use only two notes, which ones do you pick, and what's your goal in selecting exactly those notes?







      share|improve this answer














      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer








      edited 7 hours ago

























      answered 21 hours ago









      piiperipiiperi

      2,177410




      2,177410












      • maybe they think even like a shareholder ...

        – Albrecht Hügli
        21 hours ago











      • Changing the chords/harmony to a piece is all well and good, and can be done so the melody still works over them. However, when that's done, it's going to produce improv that will be different from any that would fit the original chords. There aren't that many phrases which will fit over multiple different chords or their sequences.

        – Tim
        19 hours ago











      • @Tim the idea is that you must be able to improvise your own chords (and rhythm), and play phrases that outline those new improvised chords. But anyway, I'm telling the OP to become a better improviser by diving into that world and starting to play around to learn how it works, and how the phrase notes and chords and everything are connected, and what happens on various levels when you change things. Lift up your perspective. Move to management and higher, if you feel you're stuck on the lowest levels of the organization. ;)

        – piiperi
        18 hours ago












      • I'm fluent in all that, but bottomline I think my ear just isn't as strong as it should be. For example: I really should be able to sing whatever I play (within reason) before I play it, and I can't. It is probably as simple as that. BUT YES - there are many layers and subtleties to Spontaneous Composition. And you have to have a story to tell. AND it don't mean a thing if it aint got that swing!

        – Bruce Kamolnick
        6 hours ago

















      • maybe they think even like a shareholder ...

        – Albrecht Hügli
        21 hours ago











      • Changing the chords/harmony to a piece is all well and good, and can be done so the melody still works over them. However, when that's done, it's going to produce improv that will be different from any that would fit the original chords. There aren't that many phrases which will fit over multiple different chords or their sequences.

        – Tim
        19 hours ago











      • @Tim the idea is that you must be able to improvise your own chords (and rhythm), and play phrases that outline those new improvised chords. But anyway, I'm telling the OP to become a better improviser by diving into that world and starting to play around to learn how it works, and how the phrase notes and chords and everything are connected, and what happens on various levels when you change things. Lift up your perspective. Move to management and higher, if you feel you're stuck on the lowest levels of the organization. ;)

        – piiperi
        18 hours ago












      • I'm fluent in all that, but bottomline I think my ear just isn't as strong as it should be. For example: I really should be able to sing whatever I play (within reason) before I play it, and I can't. It is probably as simple as that. BUT YES - there are many layers and subtleties to Spontaneous Composition. And you have to have a story to tell. AND it don't mean a thing if it aint got that swing!

        – Bruce Kamolnick
        6 hours ago
















      maybe they think even like a shareholder ...

      – Albrecht Hügli
      21 hours ago





      maybe they think even like a shareholder ...

      – Albrecht Hügli
      21 hours ago













      Changing the chords/harmony to a piece is all well and good, and can be done so the melody still works over them. However, when that's done, it's going to produce improv that will be different from any that would fit the original chords. There aren't that many phrases which will fit over multiple different chords or their sequences.

      – Tim
      19 hours ago





      Changing the chords/harmony to a piece is all well and good, and can be done so the melody still works over them. However, when that's done, it's going to produce improv that will be different from any that would fit the original chords. There aren't that many phrases which will fit over multiple different chords or their sequences.

      – Tim
      19 hours ago













      @Tim the idea is that you must be able to improvise your own chords (and rhythm), and play phrases that outline those new improvised chords. But anyway, I'm telling the OP to become a better improviser by diving into that world and starting to play around to learn how it works, and how the phrase notes and chords and everything are connected, and what happens on various levels when you change things. Lift up your perspective. Move to management and higher, if you feel you're stuck on the lowest levels of the organization. ;)

      – piiperi
      18 hours ago






      @Tim the idea is that you must be able to improvise your own chords (and rhythm), and play phrases that outline those new improvised chords. But anyway, I'm telling the OP to become a better improviser by diving into that world and starting to play around to learn how it works, and how the phrase notes and chords and everything are connected, and what happens on various levels when you change things. Lift up your perspective. Move to management and higher, if you feel you're stuck on the lowest levels of the organization. ;)

      – piiperi
      18 hours ago














      I'm fluent in all that, but bottomline I think my ear just isn't as strong as it should be. For example: I really should be able to sing whatever I play (within reason) before I play it, and I can't. It is probably as simple as that. BUT YES - there are many layers and subtleties to Spontaneous Composition. And you have to have a story to tell. AND it don't mean a thing if it aint got that swing!

      – Bruce Kamolnick
      6 hours ago





      I'm fluent in all that, but bottomline I think my ear just isn't as strong as it should be. For example: I really should be able to sing whatever I play (within reason) before I play it, and I can't. It is probably as simple as that. BUT YES - there are many layers and subtleties to Spontaneous Composition. And you have to have a story to tell. AND it don't mean a thing if it aint got that swing!

      – Bruce Kamolnick
      6 hours ago











      4














      You really need to ask the folk who play like this. And a lot of them probably won't be able to explain. The deeper one goes into this sort of playing, the more 'reality' is left behind. By this, I mean the conscious level of thinking. I don't mean players stop thinking, I do mean they think in a different way.



      Yes, of course they'll use stock phrases. We all do, whether we're talking or playing. Some use more stock phrases: probably because they have more to pull out of the bag, some because they know what will fit better at particular points.



      To further explain it - when you're speaking, you have a rough idea of what's going to come out, but the exact phrasing may vary. Other times, you compose the exact words, and that's what comes out. But mostly, you're not acutely aware of what's happening. And, it works!



      A lot of players even have at least an idea of the whole journey of a verse, culminating in the final phrase, which has been their target all along, and the pre-amble was mostly pre-planned in some way - sometimes vague, sometimes exactly thought out. But that is always subject to change, as the best players are listening to the rest of the players, and will react to anything they may pick up on, on the way.






      share|improve this answer























      • Yes, well said. I met a player from Sun Ra's Arkestra once (at their show) and he told me something like: You know you're in the right space when you have absolutely no idea what you're doing." That is The Zone...and it comes and goes at will, but it is a nice place to be.

        – Bruce Kamolnick
        11 hours ago















      4














      You really need to ask the folk who play like this. And a lot of them probably won't be able to explain. The deeper one goes into this sort of playing, the more 'reality' is left behind. By this, I mean the conscious level of thinking. I don't mean players stop thinking, I do mean they think in a different way.



      Yes, of course they'll use stock phrases. We all do, whether we're talking or playing. Some use more stock phrases: probably because they have more to pull out of the bag, some because they know what will fit better at particular points.



      To further explain it - when you're speaking, you have a rough idea of what's going to come out, but the exact phrasing may vary. Other times, you compose the exact words, and that's what comes out. But mostly, you're not acutely aware of what's happening. And, it works!



      A lot of players even have at least an idea of the whole journey of a verse, culminating in the final phrase, which has been their target all along, and the pre-amble was mostly pre-planned in some way - sometimes vague, sometimes exactly thought out. But that is always subject to change, as the best players are listening to the rest of the players, and will react to anything they may pick up on, on the way.






      share|improve this answer























      • Yes, well said. I met a player from Sun Ra's Arkestra once (at their show) and he told me something like: You know you're in the right space when you have absolutely no idea what you're doing." That is The Zone...and it comes and goes at will, but it is a nice place to be.

        – Bruce Kamolnick
        11 hours ago













      4












      4








      4







      You really need to ask the folk who play like this. And a lot of them probably won't be able to explain. The deeper one goes into this sort of playing, the more 'reality' is left behind. By this, I mean the conscious level of thinking. I don't mean players stop thinking, I do mean they think in a different way.



      Yes, of course they'll use stock phrases. We all do, whether we're talking or playing. Some use more stock phrases: probably because they have more to pull out of the bag, some because they know what will fit better at particular points.



      To further explain it - when you're speaking, you have a rough idea of what's going to come out, but the exact phrasing may vary. Other times, you compose the exact words, and that's what comes out. But mostly, you're not acutely aware of what's happening. And, it works!



      A lot of players even have at least an idea of the whole journey of a verse, culminating in the final phrase, which has been their target all along, and the pre-amble was mostly pre-planned in some way - sometimes vague, sometimes exactly thought out. But that is always subject to change, as the best players are listening to the rest of the players, and will react to anything they may pick up on, on the way.






      share|improve this answer













      You really need to ask the folk who play like this. And a lot of them probably won't be able to explain. The deeper one goes into this sort of playing, the more 'reality' is left behind. By this, I mean the conscious level of thinking. I don't mean players stop thinking, I do mean they think in a different way.



      Yes, of course they'll use stock phrases. We all do, whether we're talking or playing. Some use more stock phrases: probably because they have more to pull out of the bag, some because they know what will fit better at particular points.



      To further explain it - when you're speaking, you have a rough idea of what's going to come out, but the exact phrasing may vary. Other times, you compose the exact words, and that's what comes out. But mostly, you're not acutely aware of what's happening. And, it works!



      A lot of players even have at least an idea of the whole journey of a verse, culminating in the final phrase, which has been their target all along, and the pre-amble was mostly pre-planned in some way - sometimes vague, sometimes exactly thought out. But that is always subject to change, as the best players are listening to the rest of the players, and will react to anything they may pick up on, on the way.







      share|improve this answer












      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer










      answered 20 hours ago









      TimTim

      103k10107259




      103k10107259












      • Yes, well said. I met a player from Sun Ra's Arkestra once (at their show) and he told me something like: You know you're in the right space when you have absolutely no idea what you're doing." That is The Zone...and it comes and goes at will, but it is a nice place to be.

        – Bruce Kamolnick
        11 hours ago

















      • Yes, well said. I met a player from Sun Ra's Arkestra once (at their show) and he told me something like: You know you're in the right space when you have absolutely no idea what you're doing." That is The Zone...and it comes and goes at will, but it is a nice place to be.

        – Bruce Kamolnick
        11 hours ago
















      Yes, well said. I met a player from Sun Ra's Arkestra once (at their show) and he told me something like: You know you're in the right space when you have absolutely no idea what you're doing." That is The Zone...and it comes and goes at will, but it is a nice place to be.

      – Bruce Kamolnick
      11 hours ago





      Yes, well said. I met a player from Sun Ra's Arkestra once (at their show) and he told me something like: You know you're in the right space when you have absolutely no idea what you're doing." That is The Zone...and it comes and goes at will, but it is a nice place to be.

      – Bruce Kamolnick
      11 hours ago











      3














      The question is:



      What do you mean with the „inner ear”? Is it just a data processing system? Or is it an instrument of our soul? and if yes ... what is soul?



      My inner ear is a cognitive instance selecting and assembling among a ressource of melodic and rhythmic patterns, of intervals, chords, melodic formulas and clauses and licks and tricks ( which are the sum of my musical training and experience).



      As my inner ear is also a part of the cognitive instance that reassembles and reconstructs existing patterns to new combinations (subjectively) and never known or never heard “original” patterns then the inner ear is a part of the creative mind for new inventions.



      While this ressource or with an other word our repertoire inhibits our possibilities of responding in a "creative" way - we are becoming just reproductive - it provides us bigger abilities to respond and improvise fluently and automatically.



      (While the lack of knowledge and experience of me as a beginner or amateur gave me a bigger chance to respond „originally“. The less educated we are the more possibilities we have to be creative.)



      So if we compare our intuition to play the right chord with a data processing system we understand that the inner ear is responsible to choose the right chord and to decide which lick will fit.



      For inventing an originally new pattern in a solo the time is usually too short. In this case you play a lick (you can prepare this before of course at home).






      share|improve this answer





























        3














        The question is:



        What do you mean with the „inner ear”? Is it just a data processing system? Or is it an instrument of our soul? and if yes ... what is soul?



        My inner ear is a cognitive instance selecting and assembling among a ressource of melodic and rhythmic patterns, of intervals, chords, melodic formulas and clauses and licks and tricks ( which are the sum of my musical training and experience).



        As my inner ear is also a part of the cognitive instance that reassembles and reconstructs existing patterns to new combinations (subjectively) and never known or never heard “original” patterns then the inner ear is a part of the creative mind for new inventions.



        While this ressource or with an other word our repertoire inhibits our possibilities of responding in a "creative" way - we are becoming just reproductive - it provides us bigger abilities to respond and improvise fluently and automatically.



        (While the lack of knowledge and experience of me as a beginner or amateur gave me a bigger chance to respond „originally“. The less educated we are the more possibilities we have to be creative.)



        So if we compare our intuition to play the right chord with a data processing system we understand that the inner ear is responsible to choose the right chord and to decide which lick will fit.



        For inventing an originally new pattern in a solo the time is usually too short. In this case you play a lick (you can prepare this before of course at home).






        share|improve this answer



























          3












          3








          3







          The question is:



          What do you mean with the „inner ear”? Is it just a data processing system? Or is it an instrument of our soul? and if yes ... what is soul?



          My inner ear is a cognitive instance selecting and assembling among a ressource of melodic and rhythmic patterns, of intervals, chords, melodic formulas and clauses and licks and tricks ( which are the sum of my musical training and experience).



          As my inner ear is also a part of the cognitive instance that reassembles and reconstructs existing patterns to new combinations (subjectively) and never known or never heard “original” patterns then the inner ear is a part of the creative mind for new inventions.



          While this ressource or with an other word our repertoire inhibits our possibilities of responding in a "creative" way - we are becoming just reproductive - it provides us bigger abilities to respond and improvise fluently and automatically.



          (While the lack of knowledge and experience of me as a beginner or amateur gave me a bigger chance to respond „originally“. The less educated we are the more possibilities we have to be creative.)



          So if we compare our intuition to play the right chord with a data processing system we understand that the inner ear is responsible to choose the right chord and to decide which lick will fit.



          For inventing an originally new pattern in a solo the time is usually too short. In this case you play a lick (you can prepare this before of course at home).






          share|improve this answer















          The question is:



          What do you mean with the „inner ear”? Is it just a data processing system? Or is it an instrument of our soul? and if yes ... what is soul?



          My inner ear is a cognitive instance selecting and assembling among a ressource of melodic and rhythmic patterns, of intervals, chords, melodic formulas and clauses and licks and tricks ( which are the sum of my musical training and experience).



          As my inner ear is also a part of the cognitive instance that reassembles and reconstructs existing patterns to new combinations (subjectively) and never known or never heard “original” patterns then the inner ear is a part of the creative mind for new inventions.



          While this ressource or with an other word our repertoire inhibits our possibilities of responding in a "creative" way - we are becoming just reproductive - it provides us bigger abilities to respond and improvise fluently and automatically.



          (While the lack of knowledge and experience of me as a beginner or amateur gave me a bigger chance to respond „originally“. The less educated we are the more possibilities we have to be creative.)



          So if we compare our intuition to play the right chord with a data processing system we understand that the inner ear is responsible to choose the right chord and to decide which lick will fit.



          For inventing an originally new pattern in a solo the time is usually too short. In this case you play a lick (you can prepare this before of course at home).







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 20 hours ago

























          answered 21 hours ago









          Albrecht HügliAlbrecht Hügli

          3,450220




          3,450220





















              1














              I agree that "Inner Ear" is and ideal, but it also has to be said, that the more we practice improvisation the closer usually we get to that ideal. So it means something important we strive for but maybe it's not well defined.



              To me this is more of a technical aspect of improvisation - how precise/successful is our brain-body apparatus in translating the rough abstracts and ideas that flow in our heads into musical statements.



              But the art if improvisation is more about what actually IS in your head, how rich is your vocabulary and how personal, inventive and deep in the emotional sense and revealing in the intellectual sense your "content" is. That's what makes Coltrane and Davis different from your average professional jazz musician with well trained improvisation apparatus.






              share|improve this answer























              • The most inventive performer out there will sound like crap if he doesn't fit in with the support chord progressions being played.

                – Carl Witthoft
                14 hours ago











              • Where do I suggest otherwise?

                – Jarek.D
                13 hours ago











              • I agree that reducing the space, if you will, between - let's say, your inner thoughts, your mysterious muse, and what you can actually express on your ax, that is the goal. And yes, there are plenty of brilliant musicians doing just that who are not engaging. No X factor.

                – Bruce Kamolnick
                11 hours ago











              • LET ME TRY AGAIN. I agree that reducing the space between your inner thoughts, your mysterious muse, and what you can actually express on your ax, is the goal. Hendrix is an example of someone who often seems to make that direct link. And yes, having the abilities is not the same thing as having something to say, or something that pulls people in. Well, let's agree on this: better to be "telling a great story" with your playing, even if some of it is physical and automatic, than to tell a boring, unimaginative story - using your perfected inner ear.

                – Bruce Kamolnick
                11 hours ago















              1














              I agree that "Inner Ear" is and ideal, but it also has to be said, that the more we practice improvisation the closer usually we get to that ideal. So it means something important we strive for but maybe it's not well defined.



              To me this is more of a technical aspect of improvisation - how precise/successful is our brain-body apparatus in translating the rough abstracts and ideas that flow in our heads into musical statements.



              But the art if improvisation is more about what actually IS in your head, how rich is your vocabulary and how personal, inventive and deep in the emotional sense and revealing in the intellectual sense your "content" is. That's what makes Coltrane and Davis different from your average professional jazz musician with well trained improvisation apparatus.






              share|improve this answer























              • The most inventive performer out there will sound like crap if he doesn't fit in with the support chord progressions being played.

                – Carl Witthoft
                14 hours ago











              • Where do I suggest otherwise?

                – Jarek.D
                13 hours ago











              • I agree that reducing the space, if you will, between - let's say, your inner thoughts, your mysterious muse, and what you can actually express on your ax, that is the goal. And yes, there are plenty of brilliant musicians doing just that who are not engaging. No X factor.

                – Bruce Kamolnick
                11 hours ago











              • LET ME TRY AGAIN. I agree that reducing the space between your inner thoughts, your mysterious muse, and what you can actually express on your ax, is the goal. Hendrix is an example of someone who often seems to make that direct link. And yes, having the abilities is not the same thing as having something to say, or something that pulls people in. Well, let's agree on this: better to be "telling a great story" with your playing, even if some of it is physical and automatic, than to tell a boring, unimaginative story - using your perfected inner ear.

                – Bruce Kamolnick
                11 hours ago













              1












              1








              1







              I agree that "Inner Ear" is and ideal, but it also has to be said, that the more we practice improvisation the closer usually we get to that ideal. So it means something important we strive for but maybe it's not well defined.



              To me this is more of a technical aspect of improvisation - how precise/successful is our brain-body apparatus in translating the rough abstracts and ideas that flow in our heads into musical statements.



              But the art if improvisation is more about what actually IS in your head, how rich is your vocabulary and how personal, inventive and deep in the emotional sense and revealing in the intellectual sense your "content" is. That's what makes Coltrane and Davis different from your average professional jazz musician with well trained improvisation apparatus.






              share|improve this answer













              I agree that "Inner Ear" is and ideal, but it also has to be said, that the more we practice improvisation the closer usually we get to that ideal. So it means something important we strive for but maybe it's not well defined.



              To me this is more of a technical aspect of improvisation - how precise/successful is our brain-body apparatus in translating the rough abstracts and ideas that flow in our heads into musical statements.



              But the art if improvisation is more about what actually IS in your head, how rich is your vocabulary and how personal, inventive and deep in the emotional sense and revealing in the intellectual sense your "content" is. That's what makes Coltrane and Davis different from your average professional jazz musician with well trained improvisation apparatus.







              share|improve this answer












              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer










              answered 18 hours ago









              Jarek.DJarek.D

              6827




              6827












              • The most inventive performer out there will sound like crap if he doesn't fit in with the support chord progressions being played.

                – Carl Witthoft
                14 hours ago











              • Where do I suggest otherwise?

                – Jarek.D
                13 hours ago











              • I agree that reducing the space, if you will, between - let's say, your inner thoughts, your mysterious muse, and what you can actually express on your ax, that is the goal. And yes, there are plenty of brilliant musicians doing just that who are not engaging. No X factor.

                – Bruce Kamolnick
                11 hours ago











              • LET ME TRY AGAIN. I agree that reducing the space between your inner thoughts, your mysterious muse, and what you can actually express on your ax, is the goal. Hendrix is an example of someone who often seems to make that direct link. And yes, having the abilities is not the same thing as having something to say, or something that pulls people in. Well, let's agree on this: better to be "telling a great story" with your playing, even if some of it is physical and automatic, than to tell a boring, unimaginative story - using your perfected inner ear.

                – Bruce Kamolnick
                11 hours ago

















              • The most inventive performer out there will sound like crap if he doesn't fit in with the support chord progressions being played.

                – Carl Witthoft
                14 hours ago











              • Where do I suggest otherwise?

                – Jarek.D
                13 hours ago











              • I agree that reducing the space, if you will, between - let's say, your inner thoughts, your mysterious muse, and what you can actually express on your ax, that is the goal. And yes, there are plenty of brilliant musicians doing just that who are not engaging. No X factor.

                – Bruce Kamolnick
                11 hours ago











              • LET ME TRY AGAIN. I agree that reducing the space between your inner thoughts, your mysterious muse, and what you can actually express on your ax, is the goal. Hendrix is an example of someone who often seems to make that direct link. And yes, having the abilities is not the same thing as having something to say, or something that pulls people in. Well, let's agree on this: better to be "telling a great story" with your playing, even if some of it is physical and automatic, than to tell a boring, unimaginative story - using your perfected inner ear.

                – Bruce Kamolnick
                11 hours ago
















              The most inventive performer out there will sound like crap if he doesn't fit in with the support chord progressions being played.

              – Carl Witthoft
              14 hours ago





              The most inventive performer out there will sound like crap if he doesn't fit in with the support chord progressions being played.

              – Carl Witthoft
              14 hours ago













              Where do I suggest otherwise?

              – Jarek.D
              13 hours ago





              Where do I suggest otherwise?

              – Jarek.D
              13 hours ago













              I agree that reducing the space, if you will, between - let's say, your inner thoughts, your mysterious muse, and what you can actually express on your ax, that is the goal. And yes, there are plenty of brilliant musicians doing just that who are not engaging. No X factor.

              – Bruce Kamolnick
              11 hours ago





              I agree that reducing the space, if you will, between - let's say, your inner thoughts, your mysterious muse, and what you can actually express on your ax, that is the goal. And yes, there are plenty of brilliant musicians doing just that who are not engaging. No X factor.

              – Bruce Kamolnick
              11 hours ago













              LET ME TRY AGAIN. I agree that reducing the space between your inner thoughts, your mysterious muse, and what you can actually express on your ax, is the goal. Hendrix is an example of someone who often seems to make that direct link. And yes, having the abilities is not the same thing as having something to say, or something that pulls people in. Well, let's agree on this: better to be "telling a great story" with your playing, even if some of it is physical and automatic, than to tell a boring, unimaginative story - using your perfected inner ear.

              – Bruce Kamolnick
              11 hours ago





              LET ME TRY AGAIN. I agree that reducing the space between your inner thoughts, your mysterious muse, and what you can actually express on your ax, is the goal. Hendrix is an example of someone who often seems to make that direct link. And yes, having the abilities is not the same thing as having something to say, or something that pulls people in. Well, let's agree on this: better to be "telling a great story" with your playing, even if some of it is physical and automatic, than to tell a boring, unimaginative story - using your perfected inner ear.

              – Bruce Kamolnick
              11 hours ago











              0














              This is something I've been working on for years too. My philosophy is that the instrument needs to be an extension of the body much like the mouth is. So if you whistle, hum, or sing you know what I mean.



              Generally you can do these activities without thinking of scale patterns it's just inherent to us, that's what I think you mean by "inner ear". So if any song is playing we can whistle right along to it in the correct key instantaneously (assuming you're a good whistler). But what that means is you've pretty much internalized all the muscle memory necessary via your mouth for each note in your mind.



              Similarly, if you're playing piano or guitar and you're still thinking of patterns such as scales then you're not quite there yet. They only serve as training wheels for the muscle memory. I'm not quite there yet either but I'm working on it every day. And the knowledge of scales and their associated diatonic chords and beyond is a prerequisite because it can takes years to internalize the sounds.



              A few tips:

              1. Never look at your instrument, it should only be about muscle memory like touch typing on a computer.

              2. Play the same songs in all the different keys this will train your ear/fingers to be able to play any interval and chords.

              3. Figure songs out by ear, anything that you hear. Also develop the ability to know what scale degree in both melody and harmony you're listening to.






              share|improve this answer





























                0














                This is something I've been working on for years too. My philosophy is that the instrument needs to be an extension of the body much like the mouth is. So if you whistle, hum, or sing you know what I mean.



                Generally you can do these activities without thinking of scale patterns it's just inherent to us, that's what I think you mean by "inner ear". So if any song is playing we can whistle right along to it in the correct key instantaneously (assuming you're a good whistler). But what that means is you've pretty much internalized all the muscle memory necessary via your mouth for each note in your mind.



                Similarly, if you're playing piano or guitar and you're still thinking of patterns such as scales then you're not quite there yet. They only serve as training wheels for the muscle memory. I'm not quite there yet either but I'm working on it every day. And the knowledge of scales and their associated diatonic chords and beyond is a prerequisite because it can takes years to internalize the sounds.



                A few tips:

                1. Never look at your instrument, it should only be about muscle memory like touch typing on a computer.

                2. Play the same songs in all the different keys this will train your ear/fingers to be able to play any interval and chords.

                3. Figure songs out by ear, anything that you hear. Also develop the ability to know what scale degree in both melody and harmony you're listening to.






                share|improve this answer



























                  0












                  0








                  0







                  This is something I've been working on for years too. My philosophy is that the instrument needs to be an extension of the body much like the mouth is. So if you whistle, hum, or sing you know what I mean.



                  Generally you can do these activities without thinking of scale patterns it's just inherent to us, that's what I think you mean by "inner ear". So if any song is playing we can whistle right along to it in the correct key instantaneously (assuming you're a good whistler). But what that means is you've pretty much internalized all the muscle memory necessary via your mouth for each note in your mind.



                  Similarly, if you're playing piano or guitar and you're still thinking of patterns such as scales then you're not quite there yet. They only serve as training wheels for the muscle memory. I'm not quite there yet either but I'm working on it every day. And the knowledge of scales and their associated diatonic chords and beyond is a prerequisite because it can takes years to internalize the sounds.



                  A few tips:

                  1. Never look at your instrument, it should only be about muscle memory like touch typing on a computer.

                  2. Play the same songs in all the different keys this will train your ear/fingers to be able to play any interval and chords.

                  3. Figure songs out by ear, anything that you hear. Also develop the ability to know what scale degree in both melody and harmony you're listening to.






                  share|improve this answer















                  This is something I've been working on for years too. My philosophy is that the instrument needs to be an extension of the body much like the mouth is. So if you whistle, hum, or sing you know what I mean.



                  Generally you can do these activities without thinking of scale patterns it's just inherent to us, that's what I think you mean by "inner ear". So if any song is playing we can whistle right along to it in the correct key instantaneously (assuming you're a good whistler). But what that means is you've pretty much internalized all the muscle memory necessary via your mouth for each note in your mind.



                  Similarly, if you're playing piano or guitar and you're still thinking of patterns such as scales then you're not quite there yet. They only serve as training wheels for the muscle memory. I'm not quite there yet either but I'm working on it every day. And the knowledge of scales and their associated diatonic chords and beyond is a prerequisite because it can takes years to internalize the sounds.



                  A few tips:

                  1. Never look at your instrument, it should only be about muscle memory like touch typing on a computer.

                  2. Play the same songs in all the different keys this will train your ear/fingers to be able to play any interval and chords.

                  3. Figure songs out by ear, anything that you hear. Also develop the ability to know what scale degree in both melody and harmony you're listening to.







                  share|improve this answer














                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer








                  edited 10 hours ago

























                  answered 10 hours ago









                  foreyezforeyez

                  5,20432484




                  5,20432484




















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                      대한민국 목차 국명 지리 역사 정치 국방 경제 사회 문화 국제 순위 관련 항목 각주 외부 링크 둘러보기 메뉴북위 37° 34′ 08″ 동경 126° 58′ 36″ / 북위 37.568889° 동경 126.976667°  / 37.568889; 126.976667ehThe Korean Repository문단을 편집문단을 편집추가해Clarkson PLC 사Report for Selected Countries and Subjects-Korea“Human Development Index and its components: P.198”“http://www.law.go.kr/%EB%B2%95%EB%A0%B9/%EB%8C%80%ED%95%9C%EB%AF%BC%EA%B5%AD%EA%B5%AD%EA%B8%B0%EB%B2%95”"한국은 국제법상 한반도 유일 합법정부 아니다" - 오마이뉴스 모바일Report for Selected Countries and Subjects: South Korea격동의 역사와 함께한 조선일보 90년 : 조선일보 인수해 혁신시킨 신석우, 임시정부 때는 '대한민국' 국호(國號) 정해《우리가 몰랐던 우리 역사: 나라 이름의 비밀을 찾아가는 역사 여행》“남북 공식호칭 ‘남한’‘북한’으로 쓴다”“Corea 대 Korea, 누가 이긴 거야?”국내기후자료 - 한국[김대중 前 대통령 서거] 과감한 구조개혁 'DJ노믹스'로 최단기간 환란극복 :: 네이버 뉴스“이라크 "韓-쿠르드 유전개발 MOU 승인 안해"(종합)”“해외 우리국민 추방사례 43%가 일본”차기전차 K2'흑표'의 세계 최고 전력 분석, 쿠키뉴스 엄기영, 2007-03-02두산인프라, 헬기잡는 장갑차 'K21'...내년부터 공급, 고뉴스 이대준, 2008-10-30과거 내용 찾기mk 뉴스 - 구매력 기준으로 보면 한국 1인당 소득 3만弗과거 내용 찾기"The N-11: More Than an Acronym"Archived조선일보 최우석, 2008-11-01Global 500 2008: Countries - South Korea“몇년째 '시한폭탄'... 가계부채, 올해는 터질까”가구당 부채 5000만원 처음 넘어서“‘빚’으로 내몰리는 사회.. 위기의 가계대출”“[경제365] 공공부문 부채 급증…800조 육박”“"소득 양극화 다소 완화...불평등은 여전"”“공정사회·공생발전 한참 멀었네”iSuppli,08年2QのDRAMシェア・ランキングを発表(08/8/11)South Korea dominates shipbuilding industry | Stock Market News & Stocks to Watch from StraightStocks한국 자동차 생산, 3년 연속 세계 5위자동차수출 '현대-삼성 웃고 기아-대우-쌍용은 울고' 과거 내용 찾기동반성장위 창립 1주년 맞아Archived"중기적합 3개업종 합의 무시한 채 선정"李대통령, 사업 무분별 확장 소상공인 생계 위협 질타삼성-LG, 서민업종인 빵·분식사업 잇따라 철수상생은 뒷전…SSM ‘몸집 불리기’ 혈안Archived“경부고속도에 '아시안하이웨이' 표지판”'철의 실크로드' 앞서 '말(言)의 실크로드'부터, 프레시안 정창현, 2008-10-01“'서울 지하철은 안전한가?'”“서울시 “올해 안에 모든 지하철역 스크린도어 설치””“부산지하철 1,2호선 승강장 안전펜스 설치 완료”“전교조, 정부 노조 통계서 처음 빠져”“[Weekly BIZ] 도요타 '제로 이사회'가 리콜 사태 불러들였다”“S Korea slams high tuition costs”““정치가 여론 양극화 부채질… 합리주의 절실””“〈"`촛불집회'는 민주주의의 질적 변화 상징"〉”““촛불집회가 민주주의 왜곡 초래””“국민 65%, "한국 노사관계 대립적"”“한국 국가경쟁력 27위‥노사관계 '꼴찌'”“제대로 형성되지 않은 대한민국 이념지형”“[신년기획-갈등의 시대] 갈등지수 OECD 4위…사회적 손실 GDP 27% 무려 300조”“2012 총선-대선의 키워드는 '국민과 소통'”“한국 삶의 질 27위, 2000년과 2008년 연속 하위권 머물러”“[해피 코리아] 행복점수 68점…해외 평가선 '낙제점'”“한국 어린이·청소년 행복지수 3년 연속 OECD ‘꼴찌’”“한국 이혼율 OECD중 8위”“[통계청] 한국 이혼율 OECD 4위”“오피니언 [이렇게 생각한다] `부부의 날` 에 돌아본 이혼율 1위 한국”“Suicide Rates by Country, Global Health Observatory Data Repository.”“1. 또 다른 차별”“오피니언 [편집자에게] '왕따'와 '패거리 정치' 심리는 닮은꼴”“[미래한국리포트] 무한경쟁에 빠진 대한민국”“대학생 98% "외모가 경쟁력이라는 말 동의"”“특급호텔 웨딩·200만원대 유모차… "남보다 더…" 호화病, 고질병 됐다”“[스트레스 공화국] ① 경쟁사회, 스트레스 쌓인다”““매일 30여명 자살 한국, 의사보다 무속인에…””“"자살 부르는 '우울증', 환자 중 85% 치료 안 받아"”“정신병원을 가다”“대한민국도 ‘묻지마 범죄’,안전지대 아니다”“유엔 "학생 '성적 지향'에 따른 차별 금지하라"”“유엔아동권리위원회 보고서 및 번역본 원문”“고졸 성공스토리 담은 '제빵왕 김탁구' 드라마 나온다”“‘빛 좋은 개살구’ 고졸 취업…실습 대신 착취”원본 문서“정신건강, 사회적 편견부터 고쳐드립니다”‘소통’과 ‘행복’에 목 마른 사회가 잠들어 있던 ‘심리학’ 깨웠다“[포토] 사유리-곽금주 교수의 유쾌한 심리상담”“"올해 한국인 평균 영화관람횟수 세계 1위"(종합)”“[게임연중기획] 게임은 문화다-여가활동 1순위 게임”“영화속 ‘영어 지상주의’ …“왠지 씁쓸한데””“2월 `신문 부수 인증기관` 지정..방송법 후속작업”“무료신문 성장동력 ‘차별성’과 ‘갈등해소’”대한민국 국회 법률지식정보시스템"Pew Research Center's Religion & Public Life Project: South Korea"“amp;vwcd=MT_ZTITLE&path=인구·가구%20>%20인구총조사%20>%20인구부문%20>%20 총조사인구(2005)%20>%20전수부문&oper_YN=Y&item=&keyword=종교별%20인구& amp;lang_mode=kor&list_id= 2005년 통계청 인구 총조사”원본 문서“한국인이 좋아하는 취미와 운동 (2004-2009)”“한국인이 좋아하는 취미와 운동 (2004-2014)”Archived“한국, `부분적 언론자유국' 강등〈프리덤하우스〉”“국경없는기자회 "한국, 인터넷감시 대상국"”“한국, 조선산업 1위 유지(S. Korea Stays Top Shipbuilding Nation) RZD-Partner Portal”원본 문서“한국, 4년 만에 ‘선박건조 1위’”“옛 마산시,인터넷속도 세계 1위”“"한국 초고속 인터넷망 세계1위"”“인터넷·휴대폰 요금, 외국보다 훨씬 비싸”“한국 관세행정 6년 연속 세계 '1위'”“한국 교통사고 사망자 수 OECD 회원국 중 2위”“결핵 후진국' 한국, 환자가 급증한 이유는”“수술은 신중해야… 자칫하면 생명 위협”대한민국분류대한민국의 지도대한민국 정부대표 다국어포털대한민국 전자정부대한민국 국회한국방송공사about korea and information korea브리태니커 백과사전(한국편)론리플래닛의 정보(한국편)CIA의 세계 정보(한국편)마리암 부디아 (Mariam Budia),『한국: 하늘이 내린 한 폭의 그림』, 서울: 트랜스라틴 19호 (2012년 3월)대한민국ehehehehehehehehehehehehehehWorldCat132441370n791268020000 0001 2308 81034078029-6026373548cb11863345f(데이터)00573706ge128495