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dd doesn't overwrite the disk



2019 Community Moderator ElectionWhy is dd not protected against writing on the active disk ?How to inspect the contents of /dev/sdt?Overwritten superblock and dd backup files recoveryBroken disk size after incomplete dd operationAccidentally ejected sd card physically while ddCan't mount disksErrors on cloning disk with catZero Disk SpaceI have a dedicated with 2 SSDs, how to I group them to behave as 1?Can recover data from disk but not from image of same disk?










3















I am running Ubuntu 18.04.1 in a Virtual Machine (VMWare) on a Windows host. I am trying to zero out an entire SD card using dd. This is part of the process I use to release embedded Linux to the software group (SD card images compress much better when the empty FS data is all 0).



The command I am using is: sudo dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdc bs=4M status=progress and it completes successfully; I get the printout of records transferred, and a message saying no space left on device. If I then do a sudo cat /dev/sdc | hexdump to look at the disk contents though, the disk is still full of data and isn't zeroes (and not just at the end).



Do I have to specify the number of bytes of the SD card for it to work consistently? I don't have this issue every time I zero out an SD card.



Complete console output:



gen-ccm-root@ubuntu:~$ sudo dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdc bs=4M status=progress
15929966592 bytes (16 GB, 15 GiB) copied, 1274 s, 12.5 MB/s
dd: error writing '/dev/sdc': No space left on device
3799+0 records in
3798+0 records out
15931539456 bytes (16 GB, 15 GiB) copied, 1274.19 s, 12.5 MB/s
gen-ccm-root@ubuntu:~$ sudo cat /dev/sdc | hexdump
[sudo] password for gen-ccm-root:
0000000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
*
0101000 2004 0000 6004 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
0101010 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
*
0101400 2005 0000 6005 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
...









share|improve this question

















  • 2





    Can you try the same with badblocks -t 0x0000 -sw /dev/sdc (dangerous, it will write zero data too)

    – Luciano Andress Martini
    yesterday











  • Your question makes sense until “I don't have this issue every time I zero out an SD card.” I then wonder if I miss-read the start. Do you mean “I don't have this problem every time”?

    – ctrl-alt-delor
    yesterday






  • 2





    I didn't actually know badblocks existed, which is a good thing to learn. Correct I don't have this issue every time. Today was the first time that it has been consistent. badblocks is slow, but if I am reading the output correctly (7234624 done, 39:10 elapsed. (0/0/2417408 errors)) it looks like my SD card might be toast (A different question implies the last number is corruptions), which is unfortunate since it was new less than a week ago. I guess I just got lucky since I have been burning new kernels on it for the past week and they all worked fine.

    – Eskimoalva
    yesterday






  • 1





    Yes it is probably lost, but before saying this try with another sd card or in another machine. RAM errors can cause this too, because it will compare a value stored in RAM with a value found in the sdcard. It may run almost eternally depending on the damage you are experiencing the command dmesg will show important informations too.

    – Luciano Andress Martini
    yesterday







  • 1





    I jsut got another new SD card and it appears to be working fine.

    – Eskimoalva
    yesterday















3















I am running Ubuntu 18.04.1 in a Virtual Machine (VMWare) on a Windows host. I am trying to zero out an entire SD card using dd. This is part of the process I use to release embedded Linux to the software group (SD card images compress much better when the empty FS data is all 0).



The command I am using is: sudo dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdc bs=4M status=progress and it completes successfully; I get the printout of records transferred, and a message saying no space left on device. If I then do a sudo cat /dev/sdc | hexdump to look at the disk contents though, the disk is still full of data and isn't zeroes (and not just at the end).



Do I have to specify the number of bytes of the SD card for it to work consistently? I don't have this issue every time I zero out an SD card.



Complete console output:



gen-ccm-root@ubuntu:~$ sudo dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdc bs=4M status=progress
15929966592 bytes (16 GB, 15 GiB) copied, 1274 s, 12.5 MB/s
dd: error writing '/dev/sdc': No space left on device
3799+0 records in
3798+0 records out
15931539456 bytes (16 GB, 15 GiB) copied, 1274.19 s, 12.5 MB/s
gen-ccm-root@ubuntu:~$ sudo cat /dev/sdc | hexdump
[sudo] password for gen-ccm-root:
0000000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
*
0101000 2004 0000 6004 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
0101010 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
*
0101400 2005 0000 6005 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
...









share|improve this question

















  • 2





    Can you try the same with badblocks -t 0x0000 -sw /dev/sdc (dangerous, it will write zero data too)

    – Luciano Andress Martini
    yesterday











  • Your question makes sense until “I don't have this issue every time I zero out an SD card.” I then wonder if I miss-read the start. Do you mean “I don't have this problem every time”?

    – ctrl-alt-delor
    yesterday






  • 2





    I didn't actually know badblocks existed, which is a good thing to learn. Correct I don't have this issue every time. Today was the first time that it has been consistent. badblocks is slow, but if I am reading the output correctly (7234624 done, 39:10 elapsed. (0/0/2417408 errors)) it looks like my SD card might be toast (A different question implies the last number is corruptions), which is unfortunate since it was new less than a week ago. I guess I just got lucky since I have been burning new kernels on it for the past week and they all worked fine.

    – Eskimoalva
    yesterday






  • 1





    Yes it is probably lost, but before saying this try with another sd card or in another machine. RAM errors can cause this too, because it will compare a value stored in RAM with a value found in the sdcard. It may run almost eternally depending on the damage you are experiencing the command dmesg will show important informations too.

    – Luciano Andress Martini
    yesterday







  • 1





    I jsut got another new SD card and it appears to be working fine.

    – Eskimoalva
    yesterday













3












3








3








I am running Ubuntu 18.04.1 in a Virtual Machine (VMWare) on a Windows host. I am trying to zero out an entire SD card using dd. This is part of the process I use to release embedded Linux to the software group (SD card images compress much better when the empty FS data is all 0).



The command I am using is: sudo dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdc bs=4M status=progress and it completes successfully; I get the printout of records transferred, and a message saying no space left on device. If I then do a sudo cat /dev/sdc | hexdump to look at the disk contents though, the disk is still full of data and isn't zeroes (and not just at the end).



Do I have to specify the number of bytes of the SD card for it to work consistently? I don't have this issue every time I zero out an SD card.



Complete console output:



gen-ccm-root@ubuntu:~$ sudo dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdc bs=4M status=progress
15929966592 bytes (16 GB, 15 GiB) copied, 1274 s, 12.5 MB/s
dd: error writing '/dev/sdc': No space left on device
3799+0 records in
3798+0 records out
15931539456 bytes (16 GB, 15 GiB) copied, 1274.19 s, 12.5 MB/s
gen-ccm-root@ubuntu:~$ sudo cat /dev/sdc | hexdump
[sudo] password for gen-ccm-root:
0000000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
*
0101000 2004 0000 6004 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
0101010 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
*
0101400 2005 0000 6005 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
...









share|improve this question














I am running Ubuntu 18.04.1 in a Virtual Machine (VMWare) on a Windows host. I am trying to zero out an entire SD card using dd. This is part of the process I use to release embedded Linux to the software group (SD card images compress much better when the empty FS data is all 0).



The command I am using is: sudo dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdc bs=4M status=progress and it completes successfully; I get the printout of records transferred, and a message saying no space left on device. If I then do a sudo cat /dev/sdc | hexdump to look at the disk contents though, the disk is still full of data and isn't zeroes (and not just at the end).



Do I have to specify the number of bytes of the SD card for it to work consistently? I don't have this issue every time I zero out an SD card.



Complete console output:



gen-ccm-root@ubuntu:~$ sudo dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdc bs=4M status=progress
15929966592 bytes (16 GB, 15 GiB) copied, 1274 s, 12.5 MB/s
dd: error writing '/dev/sdc': No space left on device
3799+0 records in
3798+0 records out
15931539456 bytes (16 GB, 15 GiB) copied, 1274.19 s, 12.5 MB/s
gen-ccm-root@ubuntu:~$ sudo cat /dev/sdc | hexdump
[sudo] password for gen-ccm-root:
0000000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
*
0101000 2004 0000 6004 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
0101010 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
*
0101400 2005 0000 6005 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
...






dd disk






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked yesterday









EskimoalvaEskimoalva

284




284







  • 2





    Can you try the same with badblocks -t 0x0000 -sw /dev/sdc (dangerous, it will write zero data too)

    – Luciano Andress Martini
    yesterday











  • Your question makes sense until “I don't have this issue every time I zero out an SD card.” I then wonder if I miss-read the start. Do you mean “I don't have this problem every time”?

    – ctrl-alt-delor
    yesterday






  • 2





    I didn't actually know badblocks existed, which is a good thing to learn. Correct I don't have this issue every time. Today was the first time that it has been consistent. badblocks is slow, but if I am reading the output correctly (7234624 done, 39:10 elapsed. (0/0/2417408 errors)) it looks like my SD card might be toast (A different question implies the last number is corruptions), which is unfortunate since it was new less than a week ago. I guess I just got lucky since I have been burning new kernels on it for the past week and they all worked fine.

    – Eskimoalva
    yesterday






  • 1





    Yes it is probably lost, but before saying this try with another sd card or in another machine. RAM errors can cause this too, because it will compare a value stored in RAM with a value found in the sdcard. It may run almost eternally depending on the damage you are experiencing the command dmesg will show important informations too.

    – Luciano Andress Martini
    yesterday







  • 1





    I jsut got another new SD card and it appears to be working fine.

    – Eskimoalva
    yesterday












  • 2





    Can you try the same with badblocks -t 0x0000 -sw /dev/sdc (dangerous, it will write zero data too)

    – Luciano Andress Martini
    yesterday











  • Your question makes sense until “I don't have this issue every time I zero out an SD card.” I then wonder if I miss-read the start. Do you mean “I don't have this problem every time”?

    – ctrl-alt-delor
    yesterday






  • 2





    I didn't actually know badblocks existed, which is a good thing to learn. Correct I don't have this issue every time. Today was the first time that it has been consistent. badblocks is slow, but if I am reading the output correctly (7234624 done, 39:10 elapsed. (0/0/2417408 errors)) it looks like my SD card might be toast (A different question implies the last number is corruptions), which is unfortunate since it was new less than a week ago. I guess I just got lucky since I have been burning new kernels on it for the past week and they all worked fine.

    – Eskimoalva
    yesterday






  • 1





    Yes it is probably lost, but before saying this try with another sd card or in another machine. RAM errors can cause this too, because it will compare a value stored in RAM with a value found in the sdcard. It may run almost eternally depending on the damage you are experiencing the command dmesg will show important informations too.

    – Luciano Andress Martini
    yesterday







  • 1





    I jsut got another new SD card and it appears to be working fine.

    – Eskimoalva
    yesterday







2




2





Can you try the same with badblocks -t 0x0000 -sw /dev/sdc (dangerous, it will write zero data too)

– Luciano Andress Martini
yesterday





Can you try the same with badblocks -t 0x0000 -sw /dev/sdc (dangerous, it will write zero data too)

– Luciano Andress Martini
yesterday













Your question makes sense until “I don't have this issue every time I zero out an SD card.” I then wonder if I miss-read the start. Do you mean “I don't have this problem every time”?

– ctrl-alt-delor
yesterday





Your question makes sense until “I don't have this issue every time I zero out an SD card.” I then wonder if I miss-read the start. Do you mean “I don't have this problem every time”?

– ctrl-alt-delor
yesterday




2




2





I didn't actually know badblocks existed, which is a good thing to learn. Correct I don't have this issue every time. Today was the first time that it has been consistent. badblocks is slow, but if I am reading the output correctly (7234624 done, 39:10 elapsed. (0/0/2417408 errors)) it looks like my SD card might be toast (A different question implies the last number is corruptions), which is unfortunate since it was new less than a week ago. I guess I just got lucky since I have been burning new kernels on it for the past week and they all worked fine.

– Eskimoalva
yesterday





I didn't actually know badblocks existed, which is a good thing to learn. Correct I don't have this issue every time. Today was the first time that it has been consistent. badblocks is slow, but if I am reading the output correctly (7234624 done, 39:10 elapsed. (0/0/2417408 errors)) it looks like my SD card might be toast (A different question implies the last number is corruptions), which is unfortunate since it was new less than a week ago. I guess I just got lucky since I have been burning new kernels on it for the past week and they all worked fine.

– Eskimoalva
yesterday




1




1





Yes it is probably lost, but before saying this try with another sd card or in another machine. RAM errors can cause this too, because it will compare a value stored in RAM with a value found in the sdcard. It may run almost eternally depending on the damage you are experiencing the command dmesg will show important informations too.

– Luciano Andress Martini
yesterday






Yes it is probably lost, but before saying this try with another sd card or in another machine. RAM errors can cause this too, because it will compare a value stored in RAM with a value found in the sdcard. It may run almost eternally depending on the damage you are experiencing the command dmesg will show important informations too.

– Luciano Andress Martini
yesterday





1




1





I jsut got another new SD card and it appears to be working fine.

– Eskimoalva
yesterday





I jsut got another new SD card and it appears to be working fine.

– Eskimoalva
yesterday










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















3














As said in the comments, the sdcard was with badblocks.



The solution I proposed was to run:



badblocks -t 0x0000 -sw /dev/sdc


CAUTION: this is data destructive like dd if=/dev/zero.



And the user received something like:



7234624 done, 39:10 elapsed. (0/0/2417408 errors)


Showing the sdcard was damaged.



The sdcard was replaced and the problem was solved.






share|improve this answer

























  • looking for errors is a decent idea, but fwiw this is a bit of a tautology. The last figure apparently shows when badblocks reads a sector and it does not match the value that badblocks just wrote to it.

    – sourcejedi
    yesterday












  • @sourcejedi I did not understand what you say, my first language is Portuguese. What do you mean?

    – Luciano Andress Martini
    yesterday












  • 0/0/2417408 means no write errors, no read errors, but the data returned by 2417408 reads did not match the data that was written. But, that's what we already saw in the question :-).

    – sourcejedi
    22 hours ago






  • 1





    By that logic we did not need to run badblocks. It was just another way to run the same test. But apart from that, the principle is good, I agree with the conclusion you reached.

    – sourcejedi
    22 hours ago



















0














use



sudo fdsik -l


and see result for example:



/dev/mmcblk0
/dev/mmcblk01
/dev/mmcblk02


it's maybe different in your output!



now you should use:



sudo dd bs=4M if=exmple.img of=**/dev/mmcblk0** conv=fsync status=progress





share|improve this answer








New contributor




farhad azimi is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.




















  • Why are you reading from what looks like a filesystem image? What difference does the conv setting do? Why do you think they're using the wrong device to write to?

    – Kusalananda
    yesterday










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2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









3














As said in the comments, the sdcard was with badblocks.



The solution I proposed was to run:



badblocks -t 0x0000 -sw /dev/sdc


CAUTION: this is data destructive like dd if=/dev/zero.



And the user received something like:



7234624 done, 39:10 elapsed. (0/0/2417408 errors)


Showing the sdcard was damaged.



The sdcard was replaced and the problem was solved.






share|improve this answer

























  • looking for errors is a decent idea, but fwiw this is a bit of a tautology. The last figure apparently shows when badblocks reads a sector and it does not match the value that badblocks just wrote to it.

    – sourcejedi
    yesterday












  • @sourcejedi I did not understand what you say, my first language is Portuguese. What do you mean?

    – Luciano Andress Martini
    yesterday












  • 0/0/2417408 means no write errors, no read errors, but the data returned by 2417408 reads did not match the data that was written. But, that's what we already saw in the question :-).

    – sourcejedi
    22 hours ago






  • 1





    By that logic we did not need to run badblocks. It was just another way to run the same test. But apart from that, the principle is good, I agree with the conclusion you reached.

    – sourcejedi
    22 hours ago
















3














As said in the comments, the sdcard was with badblocks.



The solution I proposed was to run:



badblocks -t 0x0000 -sw /dev/sdc


CAUTION: this is data destructive like dd if=/dev/zero.



And the user received something like:



7234624 done, 39:10 elapsed. (0/0/2417408 errors)


Showing the sdcard was damaged.



The sdcard was replaced and the problem was solved.






share|improve this answer

























  • looking for errors is a decent idea, but fwiw this is a bit of a tautology. The last figure apparently shows when badblocks reads a sector and it does not match the value that badblocks just wrote to it.

    – sourcejedi
    yesterday












  • @sourcejedi I did not understand what you say, my first language is Portuguese. What do you mean?

    – Luciano Andress Martini
    yesterday












  • 0/0/2417408 means no write errors, no read errors, but the data returned by 2417408 reads did not match the data that was written. But, that's what we already saw in the question :-).

    – sourcejedi
    22 hours ago






  • 1





    By that logic we did not need to run badblocks. It was just another way to run the same test. But apart from that, the principle is good, I agree with the conclusion you reached.

    – sourcejedi
    22 hours ago














3












3








3







As said in the comments, the sdcard was with badblocks.



The solution I proposed was to run:



badblocks -t 0x0000 -sw /dev/sdc


CAUTION: this is data destructive like dd if=/dev/zero.



And the user received something like:



7234624 done, 39:10 elapsed. (0/0/2417408 errors)


Showing the sdcard was damaged.



The sdcard was replaced and the problem was solved.






share|improve this answer















As said in the comments, the sdcard was with badblocks.



The solution I proposed was to run:



badblocks -t 0x0000 -sw /dev/sdc


CAUTION: this is data destructive like dd if=/dev/zero.



And the user received something like:



7234624 done, 39:10 elapsed. (0/0/2417408 errors)


Showing the sdcard was damaged.



The sdcard was replaced and the problem was solved.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited yesterday

























answered yesterday









Luciano Andress MartiniLuciano Andress Martini

4,0951136




4,0951136












  • looking for errors is a decent idea, but fwiw this is a bit of a tautology. The last figure apparently shows when badblocks reads a sector and it does not match the value that badblocks just wrote to it.

    – sourcejedi
    yesterday












  • @sourcejedi I did not understand what you say, my first language is Portuguese. What do you mean?

    – Luciano Andress Martini
    yesterday












  • 0/0/2417408 means no write errors, no read errors, but the data returned by 2417408 reads did not match the data that was written. But, that's what we already saw in the question :-).

    – sourcejedi
    22 hours ago






  • 1





    By that logic we did not need to run badblocks. It was just another way to run the same test. But apart from that, the principle is good, I agree with the conclusion you reached.

    – sourcejedi
    22 hours ago


















  • looking for errors is a decent idea, but fwiw this is a bit of a tautology. The last figure apparently shows when badblocks reads a sector and it does not match the value that badblocks just wrote to it.

    – sourcejedi
    yesterday












  • @sourcejedi I did not understand what you say, my first language is Portuguese. What do you mean?

    – Luciano Andress Martini
    yesterday












  • 0/0/2417408 means no write errors, no read errors, but the data returned by 2417408 reads did not match the data that was written. But, that's what we already saw in the question :-).

    – sourcejedi
    22 hours ago






  • 1





    By that logic we did not need to run badblocks. It was just another way to run the same test. But apart from that, the principle is good, I agree with the conclusion you reached.

    – sourcejedi
    22 hours ago

















looking for errors is a decent idea, but fwiw this is a bit of a tautology. The last figure apparently shows when badblocks reads a sector and it does not match the value that badblocks just wrote to it.

– sourcejedi
yesterday






looking for errors is a decent idea, but fwiw this is a bit of a tautology. The last figure apparently shows when badblocks reads a sector and it does not match the value that badblocks just wrote to it.

– sourcejedi
yesterday














@sourcejedi I did not understand what you say, my first language is Portuguese. What do you mean?

– Luciano Andress Martini
yesterday






@sourcejedi I did not understand what you say, my first language is Portuguese. What do you mean?

– Luciano Andress Martini
yesterday














0/0/2417408 means no write errors, no read errors, but the data returned by 2417408 reads did not match the data that was written. But, that's what we already saw in the question :-).

– sourcejedi
22 hours ago





0/0/2417408 means no write errors, no read errors, but the data returned by 2417408 reads did not match the data that was written. But, that's what we already saw in the question :-).

– sourcejedi
22 hours ago




1




1





By that logic we did not need to run badblocks. It was just another way to run the same test. But apart from that, the principle is good, I agree with the conclusion you reached.

– sourcejedi
22 hours ago






By that logic we did not need to run badblocks. It was just another way to run the same test. But apart from that, the principle is good, I agree with the conclusion you reached.

– sourcejedi
22 hours ago














0














use



sudo fdsik -l


and see result for example:



/dev/mmcblk0
/dev/mmcblk01
/dev/mmcblk02


it's maybe different in your output!



now you should use:



sudo dd bs=4M if=exmple.img of=**/dev/mmcblk0** conv=fsync status=progress





share|improve this answer








New contributor




farhad azimi is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.




















  • Why are you reading from what looks like a filesystem image? What difference does the conv setting do? Why do you think they're using the wrong device to write to?

    – Kusalananda
    yesterday















0














use



sudo fdsik -l


and see result for example:



/dev/mmcblk0
/dev/mmcblk01
/dev/mmcblk02


it's maybe different in your output!



now you should use:



sudo dd bs=4M if=exmple.img of=**/dev/mmcblk0** conv=fsync status=progress





share|improve this answer








New contributor




farhad azimi is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.




















  • Why are you reading from what looks like a filesystem image? What difference does the conv setting do? Why do you think they're using the wrong device to write to?

    – Kusalananda
    yesterday













0












0








0







use



sudo fdsik -l


and see result for example:



/dev/mmcblk0
/dev/mmcblk01
/dev/mmcblk02


it's maybe different in your output!



now you should use:



sudo dd bs=4M if=exmple.img of=**/dev/mmcblk0** conv=fsync status=progress





share|improve this answer








New contributor




farhad azimi is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.










use



sudo fdsik -l


and see result for example:



/dev/mmcblk0
/dev/mmcblk01
/dev/mmcblk02


it's maybe different in your output!



now you should use:



sudo dd bs=4M if=exmple.img of=**/dev/mmcblk0** conv=fsync status=progress






share|improve this answer








New contributor




farhad azimi is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer






New contributor




farhad azimi is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









answered yesterday









farhad azimifarhad azimi

312




312




New contributor




farhad azimi is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





New contributor





farhad azimi is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






farhad azimi is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.












  • Why are you reading from what looks like a filesystem image? What difference does the conv setting do? Why do you think they're using the wrong device to write to?

    – Kusalananda
    yesterday

















  • Why are you reading from what looks like a filesystem image? What difference does the conv setting do? Why do you think they're using the wrong device to write to?

    – Kusalananda
    yesterday
















Why are you reading from what looks like a filesystem image? What difference does the conv setting do? Why do you think they're using the wrong device to write to?

– Kusalananda
yesterday





Why are you reading from what looks like a filesystem image? What difference does the conv setting do? Why do you think they're using the wrong device to write to?

– Kusalananda
yesterday

















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