Pre-Employment Background Check With Consent For Future ChecksIssue with background-check on previous employment start-dateShould I follow-up with potential employer after giving background check consent?How to tell a company I won't do a background check?Omitted short-term job from job application and worried about background checkUnexpected employment date issue in background check. How do I proceed?Offered a contract position with staffing agency, and job was rescinded after background checkIs it appropriate for a manager to request a filled out background check to be submitted to himImpact of discrepancy in employment dates on Background CheckBackground Check and Relocation1099 and background check
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Pre-Employment Background Check With Consent For Future Checks
Issue with background-check on previous employment start-dateShould I follow-up with potential employer after giving background check consent?How to tell a company I won't do a background check?Omitted short-term job from job application and worried about background checkUnexpected employment date issue in background check. How do I proceed?Offered a contract position with staffing agency, and job was rescinded after background checkIs it appropriate for a manager to request a filled out background check to be submitted to himImpact of discrepancy in employment dates on Background CheckBackground Check and Relocation1099 and background check
I recently interviewed for a position with the hiring manager and her next level manager. I was offered the job on the spot, which I accepted. A couple of days later I received an e-mail from a 3rd party company asking for consent for a background check.
I didn't find this unusual as most companies I've worked for do conduct pre-employment background checks. However, as I started into their online submission process, the first thing to sign was the consent form.
I took the time to read what I was signing and saw that the consent was not for a one-time background check, but for open-ended consent without notice or disclosure. It was very clearly asking for consent to conduct future background checks at any time during employment and without any type of notification.
I've never seen anything like that before. I e-mailed the hiring manager and explained that I was not comfortable giving open-ended consent and that I would not be moving forward with the company.
I then received an e-mail from the next level manager basically saying that it is the company's policy but that it is never abused and asking me to reconsider. I politely declined.
I don't have anything to hide or be concerned about and don't anticipate anything in the future. I just felt it was wrong to be asked to sign off on something like that.
Is this common practice nowadays? Did I over-react?
EDIT: To clarify, this is not a sensitive role in any way. No trade secrets, no secure information, etc. No request for non-disclosure or non-compete agreements. This is a part-time very low level merchandising role - placing coupons in stores.
united-states background-check
|
show 6 more comments
I recently interviewed for a position with the hiring manager and her next level manager. I was offered the job on the spot, which I accepted. A couple of days later I received an e-mail from a 3rd party company asking for consent for a background check.
I didn't find this unusual as most companies I've worked for do conduct pre-employment background checks. However, as I started into their online submission process, the first thing to sign was the consent form.
I took the time to read what I was signing and saw that the consent was not for a one-time background check, but for open-ended consent without notice or disclosure. It was very clearly asking for consent to conduct future background checks at any time during employment and without any type of notification.
I've never seen anything like that before. I e-mailed the hiring manager and explained that I was not comfortable giving open-ended consent and that I would not be moving forward with the company.
I then received an e-mail from the next level manager basically saying that it is the company's policy but that it is never abused and asking me to reconsider. I politely declined.
I don't have anything to hide or be concerned about and don't anticipate anything in the future. I just felt it was wrong to be asked to sign off on something like that.
Is this common practice nowadays? Did I over-react?
EDIT: To clarify, this is not a sensitive role in any way. No trade secrets, no secure information, etc. No request for non-disclosure or non-compete agreements. This is a part-time very low level merchandising role - placing coupons in stores.
united-states background-check
Since I don't have a direct answer to your questions, i can only offer this bit of information: one of the largest insurance companies in the world conducts annual background checks on all employees. They send a notification to everyone when it occurs, so for them, it's SOP, regardless of your position with them.
– Taegost
11 hours ago
8
@Taegost I can understand that. My concern about potential abuse was the fact that this company doesn't have a standard in place, e.g. yearly - it's random. And they clearly state that they do not have to disclose it to you or notify you. Plus, in this particular position, employees wouldn't have access to any personal or sensitive information.
– Cindy
11 hours ago
15
@DavidK I am not uncomfortable with future background checks. What I object to is giving anyone carte blanche to access my personal and sensitive information any time they choose to without letting me know. Even if the hiring company has no ill intent, that doesn't stop the 3rd party company or a rogue employee of their's from accessing such information at their will. And because there is no set timeframe or notification in place, misuse or abuse could easily go unnoticed.
– Cindy
7 hours ago
2
For context, a secret clearance, passport application, and immigration process don't allow this kind of open-ended discovery. Clearly, the organization in question holds the door open because it doesn't trust its employees and past employees to play nice, (possibly as an admission they don't pay a living wage).
– Rich
7 hours ago
1
@Rich Actually, just last year the US government just switched to a Continuous Evaluation model for clearance holders
– David K
7 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
I recently interviewed for a position with the hiring manager and her next level manager. I was offered the job on the spot, which I accepted. A couple of days later I received an e-mail from a 3rd party company asking for consent for a background check.
I didn't find this unusual as most companies I've worked for do conduct pre-employment background checks. However, as I started into their online submission process, the first thing to sign was the consent form.
I took the time to read what I was signing and saw that the consent was not for a one-time background check, but for open-ended consent without notice or disclosure. It was very clearly asking for consent to conduct future background checks at any time during employment and without any type of notification.
I've never seen anything like that before. I e-mailed the hiring manager and explained that I was not comfortable giving open-ended consent and that I would not be moving forward with the company.
I then received an e-mail from the next level manager basically saying that it is the company's policy but that it is never abused and asking me to reconsider. I politely declined.
I don't have anything to hide or be concerned about and don't anticipate anything in the future. I just felt it was wrong to be asked to sign off on something like that.
Is this common practice nowadays? Did I over-react?
EDIT: To clarify, this is not a sensitive role in any way. No trade secrets, no secure information, etc. No request for non-disclosure or non-compete agreements. This is a part-time very low level merchandising role - placing coupons in stores.
united-states background-check
I recently interviewed for a position with the hiring manager and her next level manager. I was offered the job on the spot, which I accepted. A couple of days later I received an e-mail from a 3rd party company asking for consent for a background check.
I didn't find this unusual as most companies I've worked for do conduct pre-employment background checks. However, as I started into their online submission process, the first thing to sign was the consent form.
I took the time to read what I was signing and saw that the consent was not for a one-time background check, but for open-ended consent without notice or disclosure. It was very clearly asking for consent to conduct future background checks at any time during employment and without any type of notification.
I've never seen anything like that before. I e-mailed the hiring manager and explained that I was not comfortable giving open-ended consent and that I would not be moving forward with the company.
I then received an e-mail from the next level manager basically saying that it is the company's policy but that it is never abused and asking me to reconsider. I politely declined.
I don't have anything to hide or be concerned about and don't anticipate anything in the future. I just felt it was wrong to be asked to sign off on something like that.
Is this common practice nowadays? Did I over-react?
EDIT: To clarify, this is not a sensitive role in any way. No trade secrets, no secure information, etc. No request for non-disclosure or non-compete agreements. This is a part-time very low level merchandising role - placing coupons in stores.
united-states background-check
united-states background-check
edited 11 hours ago
Mister Positive♦
62.2k33205249
62.2k33205249
asked 13 hours ago
CindyCindy
400311
400311
Since I don't have a direct answer to your questions, i can only offer this bit of information: one of the largest insurance companies in the world conducts annual background checks on all employees. They send a notification to everyone when it occurs, so for them, it's SOP, regardless of your position with them.
– Taegost
11 hours ago
8
@Taegost I can understand that. My concern about potential abuse was the fact that this company doesn't have a standard in place, e.g. yearly - it's random. And they clearly state that they do not have to disclose it to you or notify you. Plus, in this particular position, employees wouldn't have access to any personal or sensitive information.
– Cindy
11 hours ago
15
@DavidK I am not uncomfortable with future background checks. What I object to is giving anyone carte blanche to access my personal and sensitive information any time they choose to without letting me know. Even if the hiring company has no ill intent, that doesn't stop the 3rd party company or a rogue employee of their's from accessing such information at their will. And because there is no set timeframe or notification in place, misuse or abuse could easily go unnoticed.
– Cindy
7 hours ago
2
For context, a secret clearance, passport application, and immigration process don't allow this kind of open-ended discovery. Clearly, the organization in question holds the door open because it doesn't trust its employees and past employees to play nice, (possibly as an admission they don't pay a living wage).
– Rich
7 hours ago
1
@Rich Actually, just last year the US government just switched to a Continuous Evaluation model for clearance holders
– David K
7 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
Since I don't have a direct answer to your questions, i can only offer this bit of information: one of the largest insurance companies in the world conducts annual background checks on all employees. They send a notification to everyone when it occurs, so for them, it's SOP, regardless of your position with them.
– Taegost
11 hours ago
8
@Taegost I can understand that. My concern about potential abuse was the fact that this company doesn't have a standard in place, e.g. yearly - it's random. And they clearly state that they do not have to disclose it to you or notify you. Plus, in this particular position, employees wouldn't have access to any personal or sensitive information.
– Cindy
11 hours ago
15
@DavidK I am not uncomfortable with future background checks. What I object to is giving anyone carte blanche to access my personal and sensitive information any time they choose to without letting me know. Even if the hiring company has no ill intent, that doesn't stop the 3rd party company or a rogue employee of their's from accessing such information at their will. And because there is no set timeframe or notification in place, misuse or abuse could easily go unnoticed.
– Cindy
7 hours ago
2
For context, a secret clearance, passport application, and immigration process don't allow this kind of open-ended discovery. Clearly, the organization in question holds the door open because it doesn't trust its employees and past employees to play nice, (possibly as an admission they don't pay a living wage).
– Rich
7 hours ago
1
@Rich Actually, just last year the US government just switched to a Continuous Evaluation model for clearance holders
– David K
7 hours ago
Since I don't have a direct answer to your questions, i can only offer this bit of information: one of the largest insurance companies in the world conducts annual background checks on all employees. They send a notification to everyone when it occurs, so for them, it's SOP, regardless of your position with them.
– Taegost
11 hours ago
Since I don't have a direct answer to your questions, i can only offer this bit of information: one of the largest insurance companies in the world conducts annual background checks on all employees. They send a notification to everyone when it occurs, so for them, it's SOP, regardless of your position with them.
– Taegost
11 hours ago
8
8
@Taegost I can understand that. My concern about potential abuse was the fact that this company doesn't have a standard in place, e.g. yearly - it's random. And they clearly state that they do not have to disclose it to you or notify you. Plus, in this particular position, employees wouldn't have access to any personal or sensitive information.
– Cindy
11 hours ago
@Taegost I can understand that. My concern about potential abuse was the fact that this company doesn't have a standard in place, e.g. yearly - it's random. And they clearly state that they do not have to disclose it to you or notify you. Plus, in this particular position, employees wouldn't have access to any personal or sensitive information.
– Cindy
11 hours ago
15
15
@DavidK I am not uncomfortable with future background checks. What I object to is giving anyone carte blanche to access my personal and sensitive information any time they choose to without letting me know. Even if the hiring company has no ill intent, that doesn't stop the 3rd party company or a rogue employee of their's from accessing such information at their will. And because there is no set timeframe or notification in place, misuse or abuse could easily go unnoticed.
– Cindy
7 hours ago
@DavidK I am not uncomfortable with future background checks. What I object to is giving anyone carte blanche to access my personal and sensitive information any time they choose to without letting me know. Even if the hiring company has no ill intent, that doesn't stop the 3rd party company or a rogue employee of their's from accessing such information at their will. And because there is no set timeframe or notification in place, misuse or abuse could easily go unnoticed.
– Cindy
7 hours ago
2
2
For context, a secret clearance, passport application, and immigration process don't allow this kind of open-ended discovery. Clearly, the organization in question holds the door open because it doesn't trust its employees and past employees to play nice, (possibly as an admission they don't pay a living wage).
– Rich
7 hours ago
For context, a secret clearance, passport application, and immigration process don't allow this kind of open-ended discovery. Clearly, the organization in question holds the door open because it doesn't trust its employees and past employees to play nice, (possibly as an admission they don't pay a living wage).
– Rich
7 hours ago
1
1
@Rich Actually, just last year the US government just switched to a Continuous Evaluation model for clearance holders
– David K
7 hours ago
@Rich Actually, just last year the US government just switched to a Continuous Evaluation model for clearance holders
– David K
7 hours ago
|
show 6 more comments
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
As a European, I don't think you overreacted in the slightest!
When they say "it is never abused", my reaction is "they would say that, wouldn't they?". Further, they may not abuse it now, but what about later when they have been taken over by a less benevolent organization.
Given that you don't need the job, I think walking away was the right thing to do.
95
I love it when people say "Yes, it would allow us to do that, but we would never do that." If you would never do that, then why would you need blanket permission to!?
– Kyralessa
11 hours ago
20
No no, it's fine! Give me your credit card number, its expiration date and CVC... I mean, yes I could use it to impersonate you... but I won't!
– Patrice
10 hours ago
5
It's weird reading "as a European" from an actual european. In the context of this question it doesn't mean anything and I wouldn't expect a local to promote the false concept that we're somehow a big united country with the same types of governement or cultures. Not sure if a German, a Swede and an Ukrainian would have that much values in common. +1 On the actual answer, though !
– Echox
8 hours ago
10
@Echox I have worked in the UK, Germany, and Switzerland. My impression is that the view on what is acceptable in a workplace is very different between Europe and US. I accept there are significant differences between different European countries, but not I think as big as the differences between Europe in general and the US.
– Martin Bonner
8 hours ago
4
The same applies to things like background checks; I don't drive trains or planes and a mistake on my part would at most result in some downtime on an application somewhere - not in people dying. Therefore, even if I don't take any drugs and never have, I'd consider drug testing or background checks an unacceptable intrusion in my privacy and I'd never sign a contract requiring them (not even una tantum), unless the employer is prepared to buy me off with a really ridiculous amount of money. Everything has a price after all.
– Demonblack
7 hours ago
|
show 5 more comments
I admire you for following you conscience, and it is people like you that stop the gradual oppression of the working class by increasingly overbearing corporate America. OK, maybe I've gone a bit far. Anyway...
Yes, I would classify this as strange, given the industry and role, though I'm not from the US.
it is the company's policy but that it is never abused
That's, you know, exactly what one would say if they abused it.
Policy is borne of company needs, it isn't a reason it itself. If you were feeling charitable, you could have asked them why the policy is the way it is.
Whatever you do, it will come down to your needs. Maybe one day you will compromise on your morals, but hopefully you have enough opportunities that you never need to.
add a comment |
Consider the statement
it is the company's policy but that it is never abused
While "They would say that, wouldn't they?" is a perfectly reasonable (although somewhat cynical) response, it's not necessary to go that far. While the moment has passed, a perfectly logical response would have been
What part of company policy establishes the definition of "abused"? And what are the penalties if abuse occurs?
Refusal to explicitly define the company's power in this sort of situation is an open invitation to (ahem) abuse.
add a comment |
It certainly is odd, however one thing the other answers have not yet picked up on is that in some industries, repeated background checks are the norm and sometimes even mandated. However in such cases the rate of such checks being "at the company's discretion" is not normal at all.
Most places (and legislations) that require repeated background checks usually specify a fixed rate of when they happen (annually, once every six months). It seems that this company has taken a leaf out of the tech industry's approach to client contracts (i.e: in exchange for accessing this service, you have to agree to a completely unreasonable set of conditions that is totally one-sided in the provider's favour). You did the right thing in turning it down.
Indent think that specifying „only“ every 6 month is any worse than specifying „at companies discretion“. However not being notified seems to be strange. Especially if the info collected (like credit score) might as well be useful to the employee.
– eckes
4 hours ago
add a comment |
I have a medical matter that comes with a consent form. The form there, like yours, authorises them to contact "anyone" to check "anything", without time limit. (And, incidentally, not just limited to the medical matter, according to the strict wording.)
I did as you did. I declined - but in order to smooth it over as best I could, I wrote clearly in the blank space for the signature, something like "CONSENT TO BE OBTAINED IN WRITING ON EACH AND EVERY OCCASION", and signed that instead.
My rationale was that this way, nobody could ever argue that I had refused consent. On the contrary, I'd made it abundantly clear that consent could be requested any time it was needed. That, I felt, would put me on very solid safe ground if any unknown person in a back-office or higher up tried to put coercive pressure on me, or implied I wouldn't get what I wanted unless I signed fully.
Consent can't be consent unless freely given.
It was completely non standard - and I never had an issue doing it. I've done it several times since, and never had any hint of an issue any time - perhaps because it's so darn obvious what the issue is.
add a comment |
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5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
As a European, I don't think you overreacted in the slightest!
When they say "it is never abused", my reaction is "they would say that, wouldn't they?". Further, they may not abuse it now, but what about later when they have been taken over by a less benevolent organization.
Given that you don't need the job, I think walking away was the right thing to do.
95
I love it when people say "Yes, it would allow us to do that, but we would never do that." If you would never do that, then why would you need blanket permission to!?
– Kyralessa
11 hours ago
20
No no, it's fine! Give me your credit card number, its expiration date and CVC... I mean, yes I could use it to impersonate you... but I won't!
– Patrice
10 hours ago
5
It's weird reading "as a European" from an actual european. In the context of this question it doesn't mean anything and I wouldn't expect a local to promote the false concept that we're somehow a big united country with the same types of governement or cultures. Not sure if a German, a Swede and an Ukrainian would have that much values in common. +1 On the actual answer, though !
– Echox
8 hours ago
10
@Echox I have worked in the UK, Germany, and Switzerland. My impression is that the view on what is acceptable in a workplace is very different between Europe and US. I accept there are significant differences between different European countries, but not I think as big as the differences between Europe in general and the US.
– Martin Bonner
8 hours ago
4
The same applies to things like background checks; I don't drive trains or planes and a mistake on my part would at most result in some downtime on an application somewhere - not in people dying. Therefore, even if I don't take any drugs and never have, I'd consider drug testing or background checks an unacceptable intrusion in my privacy and I'd never sign a contract requiring them (not even una tantum), unless the employer is prepared to buy me off with a really ridiculous amount of money. Everything has a price after all.
– Demonblack
7 hours ago
|
show 5 more comments
As a European, I don't think you overreacted in the slightest!
When they say "it is never abused", my reaction is "they would say that, wouldn't they?". Further, they may not abuse it now, but what about later when they have been taken over by a less benevolent organization.
Given that you don't need the job, I think walking away was the right thing to do.
95
I love it when people say "Yes, it would allow us to do that, but we would never do that." If you would never do that, then why would you need blanket permission to!?
– Kyralessa
11 hours ago
20
No no, it's fine! Give me your credit card number, its expiration date and CVC... I mean, yes I could use it to impersonate you... but I won't!
– Patrice
10 hours ago
5
It's weird reading "as a European" from an actual european. In the context of this question it doesn't mean anything and I wouldn't expect a local to promote the false concept that we're somehow a big united country with the same types of governement or cultures. Not sure if a German, a Swede and an Ukrainian would have that much values in common. +1 On the actual answer, though !
– Echox
8 hours ago
10
@Echox I have worked in the UK, Germany, and Switzerland. My impression is that the view on what is acceptable in a workplace is very different between Europe and US. I accept there are significant differences between different European countries, but not I think as big as the differences between Europe in general and the US.
– Martin Bonner
8 hours ago
4
The same applies to things like background checks; I don't drive trains or planes and a mistake on my part would at most result in some downtime on an application somewhere - not in people dying. Therefore, even if I don't take any drugs and never have, I'd consider drug testing or background checks an unacceptable intrusion in my privacy and I'd never sign a contract requiring them (not even una tantum), unless the employer is prepared to buy me off with a really ridiculous amount of money. Everything has a price after all.
– Demonblack
7 hours ago
|
show 5 more comments
As a European, I don't think you overreacted in the slightest!
When they say "it is never abused", my reaction is "they would say that, wouldn't they?". Further, they may not abuse it now, but what about later when they have been taken over by a less benevolent organization.
Given that you don't need the job, I think walking away was the right thing to do.
As a European, I don't think you overreacted in the slightest!
When they say "it is never abused", my reaction is "they would say that, wouldn't they?". Further, they may not abuse it now, but what about later when they have been taken over by a less benevolent organization.
Given that you don't need the job, I think walking away was the right thing to do.
answered 12 hours ago
Martin BonnerMartin Bonner
1,5492815
1,5492815
95
I love it when people say "Yes, it would allow us to do that, but we would never do that." If you would never do that, then why would you need blanket permission to!?
– Kyralessa
11 hours ago
20
No no, it's fine! Give me your credit card number, its expiration date and CVC... I mean, yes I could use it to impersonate you... but I won't!
– Patrice
10 hours ago
5
It's weird reading "as a European" from an actual european. In the context of this question it doesn't mean anything and I wouldn't expect a local to promote the false concept that we're somehow a big united country with the same types of governement or cultures. Not sure if a German, a Swede and an Ukrainian would have that much values in common. +1 On the actual answer, though !
– Echox
8 hours ago
10
@Echox I have worked in the UK, Germany, and Switzerland. My impression is that the view on what is acceptable in a workplace is very different between Europe and US. I accept there are significant differences between different European countries, but not I think as big as the differences between Europe in general and the US.
– Martin Bonner
8 hours ago
4
The same applies to things like background checks; I don't drive trains or planes and a mistake on my part would at most result in some downtime on an application somewhere - not in people dying. Therefore, even if I don't take any drugs and never have, I'd consider drug testing or background checks an unacceptable intrusion in my privacy and I'd never sign a contract requiring them (not even una tantum), unless the employer is prepared to buy me off with a really ridiculous amount of money. Everything has a price after all.
– Demonblack
7 hours ago
|
show 5 more comments
95
I love it when people say "Yes, it would allow us to do that, but we would never do that." If you would never do that, then why would you need blanket permission to!?
– Kyralessa
11 hours ago
20
No no, it's fine! Give me your credit card number, its expiration date and CVC... I mean, yes I could use it to impersonate you... but I won't!
– Patrice
10 hours ago
5
It's weird reading "as a European" from an actual european. In the context of this question it doesn't mean anything and I wouldn't expect a local to promote the false concept that we're somehow a big united country with the same types of governement or cultures. Not sure if a German, a Swede and an Ukrainian would have that much values in common. +1 On the actual answer, though !
– Echox
8 hours ago
10
@Echox I have worked in the UK, Germany, and Switzerland. My impression is that the view on what is acceptable in a workplace is very different between Europe and US. I accept there are significant differences between different European countries, but not I think as big as the differences between Europe in general and the US.
– Martin Bonner
8 hours ago
4
The same applies to things like background checks; I don't drive trains or planes and a mistake on my part would at most result in some downtime on an application somewhere - not in people dying. Therefore, even if I don't take any drugs and never have, I'd consider drug testing or background checks an unacceptable intrusion in my privacy and I'd never sign a contract requiring them (not even una tantum), unless the employer is prepared to buy me off with a really ridiculous amount of money. Everything has a price after all.
– Demonblack
7 hours ago
95
95
I love it when people say "Yes, it would allow us to do that, but we would never do that." If you would never do that, then why would you need blanket permission to!?
– Kyralessa
11 hours ago
I love it when people say "Yes, it would allow us to do that, but we would never do that." If you would never do that, then why would you need blanket permission to!?
– Kyralessa
11 hours ago
20
20
No no, it's fine! Give me your credit card number, its expiration date and CVC... I mean, yes I could use it to impersonate you... but I won't!
– Patrice
10 hours ago
No no, it's fine! Give me your credit card number, its expiration date and CVC... I mean, yes I could use it to impersonate you... but I won't!
– Patrice
10 hours ago
5
5
It's weird reading "as a European" from an actual european. In the context of this question it doesn't mean anything and I wouldn't expect a local to promote the false concept that we're somehow a big united country with the same types of governement or cultures. Not sure if a German, a Swede and an Ukrainian would have that much values in common. +1 On the actual answer, though !
– Echox
8 hours ago
It's weird reading "as a European" from an actual european. In the context of this question it doesn't mean anything and I wouldn't expect a local to promote the false concept that we're somehow a big united country with the same types of governement or cultures. Not sure if a German, a Swede and an Ukrainian would have that much values in common. +1 On the actual answer, though !
– Echox
8 hours ago
10
10
@Echox I have worked in the UK, Germany, and Switzerland. My impression is that the view on what is acceptable in a workplace is very different between Europe and US. I accept there are significant differences between different European countries, but not I think as big as the differences between Europe in general and the US.
– Martin Bonner
8 hours ago
@Echox I have worked in the UK, Germany, and Switzerland. My impression is that the view on what is acceptable in a workplace is very different between Europe and US. I accept there are significant differences between different European countries, but not I think as big as the differences between Europe in general and the US.
– Martin Bonner
8 hours ago
4
4
The same applies to things like background checks; I don't drive trains or planes and a mistake on my part would at most result in some downtime on an application somewhere - not in people dying. Therefore, even if I don't take any drugs and never have, I'd consider drug testing or background checks an unacceptable intrusion in my privacy and I'd never sign a contract requiring them (not even una tantum), unless the employer is prepared to buy me off with a really ridiculous amount of money. Everything has a price after all.
– Demonblack
7 hours ago
The same applies to things like background checks; I don't drive trains or planes and a mistake on my part would at most result in some downtime on an application somewhere - not in people dying. Therefore, even if I don't take any drugs and never have, I'd consider drug testing or background checks an unacceptable intrusion in my privacy and I'd never sign a contract requiring them (not even una tantum), unless the employer is prepared to buy me off with a really ridiculous amount of money. Everything has a price after all.
– Demonblack
7 hours ago
|
show 5 more comments
I admire you for following you conscience, and it is people like you that stop the gradual oppression of the working class by increasingly overbearing corporate America. OK, maybe I've gone a bit far. Anyway...
Yes, I would classify this as strange, given the industry and role, though I'm not from the US.
it is the company's policy but that it is never abused
That's, you know, exactly what one would say if they abused it.
Policy is borne of company needs, it isn't a reason it itself. If you were feeling charitable, you could have asked them why the policy is the way it is.
Whatever you do, it will come down to your needs. Maybe one day you will compromise on your morals, but hopefully you have enough opportunities that you never need to.
add a comment |
I admire you for following you conscience, and it is people like you that stop the gradual oppression of the working class by increasingly overbearing corporate America. OK, maybe I've gone a bit far. Anyway...
Yes, I would classify this as strange, given the industry and role, though I'm not from the US.
it is the company's policy but that it is never abused
That's, you know, exactly what one would say if they abused it.
Policy is borne of company needs, it isn't a reason it itself. If you were feeling charitable, you could have asked them why the policy is the way it is.
Whatever you do, it will come down to your needs. Maybe one day you will compromise on your morals, but hopefully you have enough opportunities that you never need to.
add a comment |
I admire you for following you conscience, and it is people like you that stop the gradual oppression of the working class by increasingly overbearing corporate America. OK, maybe I've gone a bit far. Anyway...
Yes, I would classify this as strange, given the industry and role, though I'm not from the US.
it is the company's policy but that it is never abused
That's, you know, exactly what one would say if they abused it.
Policy is borne of company needs, it isn't a reason it itself. If you were feeling charitable, you could have asked them why the policy is the way it is.
Whatever you do, it will come down to your needs. Maybe one day you will compromise on your morals, but hopefully you have enough opportunities that you never need to.
I admire you for following you conscience, and it is people like you that stop the gradual oppression of the working class by increasingly overbearing corporate America. OK, maybe I've gone a bit far. Anyway...
Yes, I would classify this as strange, given the industry and role, though I'm not from the US.
it is the company's policy but that it is never abused
That's, you know, exactly what one would say if they abused it.
Policy is borne of company needs, it isn't a reason it itself. If you were feeling charitable, you could have asked them why the policy is the way it is.
Whatever you do, it will come down to your needs. Maybe one day you will compromise on your morals, but hopefully you have enough opportunities that you never need to.
edited 10 hours ago
terdon
1405
1405
answered 12 hours ago
Gregory CurrieGregory Currie
2,26021623
2,26021623
add a comment |
add a comment |
Consider the statement
it is the company's policy but that it is never abused
While "They would say that, wouldn't they?" is a perfectly reasonable (although somewhat cynical) response, it's not necessary to go that far. While the moment has passed, a perfectly logical response would have been
What part of company policy establishes the definition of "abused"? And what are the penalties if abuse occurs?
Refusal to explicitly define the company's power in this sort of situation is an open invitation to (ahem) abuse.
add a comment |
Consider the statement
it is the company's policy but that it is never abused
While "They would say that, wouldn't they?" is a perfectly reasonable (although somewhat cynical) response, it's not necessary to go that far. While the moment has passed, a perfectly logical response would have been
What part of company policy establishes the definition of "abused"? And what are the penalties if abuse occurs?
Refusal to explicitly define the company's power in this sort of situation is an open invitation to (ahem) abuse.
add a comment |
Consider the statement
it is the company's policy but that it is never abused
While "They would say that, wouldn't they?" is a perfectly reasonable (although somewhat cynical) response, it's not necessary to go that far. While the moment has passed, a perfectly logical response would have been
What part of company policy establishes the definition of "abused"? And what are the penalties if abuse occurs?
Refusal to explicitly define the company's power in this sort of situation is an open invitation to (ahem) abuse.
Consider the statement
it is the company's policy but that it is never abused
While "They would say that, wouldn't they?" is a perfectly reasonable (although somewhat cynical) response, it's not necessary to go that far. While the moment has passed, a perfectly logical response would have been
What part of company policy establishes the definition of "abused"? And what are the penalties if abuse occurs?
Refusal to explicitly define the company's power in this sort of situation is an open invitation to (ahem) abuse.
answered 8 hours ago
WhatRoughBeastWhatRoughBeast
79938
79938
add a comment |
add a comment |
It certainly is odd, however one thing the other answers have not yet picked up on is that in some industries, repeated background checks are the norm and sometimes even mandated. However in such cases the rate of such checks being "at the company's discretion" is not normal at all.
Most places (and legislations) that require repeated background checks usually specify a fixed rate of when they happen (annually, once every six months). It seems that this company has taken a leaf out of the tech industry's approach to client contracts (i.e: in exchange for accessing this service, you have to agree to a completely unreasonable set of conditions that is totally one-sided in the provider's favour). You did the right thing in turning it down.
Indent think that specifying „only“ every 6 month is any worse than specifying „at companies discretion“. However not being notified seems to be strange. Especially if the info collected (like credit score) might as well be useful to the employee.
– eckes
4 hours ago
add a comment |
It certainly is odd, however one thing the other answers have not yet picked up on is that in some industries, repeated background checks are the norm and sometimes even mandated. However in such cases the rate of such checks being "at the company's discretion" is not normal at all.
Most places (and legislations) that require repeated background checks usually specify a fixed rate of when they happen (annually, once every six months). It seems that this company has taken a leaf out of the tech industry's approach to client contracts (i.e: in exchange for accessing this service, you have to agree to a completely unreasonable set of conditions that is totally one-sided in the provider's favour). You did the right thing in turning it down.
Indent think that specifying „only“ every 6 month is any worse than specifying „at companies discretion“. However not being notified seems to be strange. Especially if the info collected (like credit score) might as well be useful to the employee.
– eckes
4 hours ago
add a comment |
It certainly is odd, however one thing the other answers have not yet picked up on is that in some industries, repeated background checks are the norm and sometimes even mandated. However in such cases the rate of such checks being "at the company's discretion" is not normal at all.
Most places (and legislations) that require repeated background checks usually specify a fixed rate of when they happen (annually, once every six months). It seems that this company has taken a leaf out of the tech industry's approach to client contracts (i.e: in exchange for accessing this service, you have to agree to a completely unreasonable set of conditions that is totally one-sided in the provider's favour). You did the right thing in turning it down.
It certainly is odd, however one thing the other answers have not yet picked up on is that in some industries, repeated background checks are the norm and sometimes even mandated. However in such cases the rate of such checks being "at the company's discretion" is not normal at all.
Most places (and legislations) that require repeated background checks usually specify a fixed rate of when they happen (annually, once every six months). It seems that this company has taken a leaf out of the tech industry's approach to client contracts (i.e: in exchange for accessing this service, you have to agree to a completely unreasonable set of conditions that is totally one-sided in the provider's favour). You did the right thing in turning it down.
answered 8 hours ago
520520
4,624725
4,624725
Indent think that specifying „only“ every 6 month is any worse than specifying „at companies discretion“. However not being notified seems to be strange. Especially if the info collected (like credit score) might as well be useful to the employee.
– eckes
4 hours ago
add a comment |
Indent think that specifying „only“ every 6 month is any worse than specifying „at companies discretion“. However not being notified seems to be strange. Especially if the info collected (like credit score) might as well be useful to the employee.
– eckes
4 hours ago
Indent think that specifying „only“ every 6 month is any worse than specifying „at companies discretion“. However not being notified seems to be strange. Especially if the info collected (like credit score) might as well be useful to the employee.
– eckes
4 hours ago
Indent think that specifying „only“ every 6 month is any worse than specifying „at companies discretion“. However not being notified seems to be strange. Especially if the info collected (like credit score) might as well be useful to the employee.
– eckes
4 hours ago
add a comment |
I have a medical matter that comes with a consent form. The form there, like yours, authorises them to contact "anyone" to check "anything", without time limit. (And, incidentally, not just limited to the medical matter, according to the strict wording.)
I did as you did. I declined - but in order to smooth it over as best I could, I wrote clearly in the blank space for the signature, something like "CONSENT TO BE OBTAINED IN WRITING ON EACH AND EVERY OCCASION", and signed that instead.
My rationale was that this way, nobody could ever argue that I had refused consent. On the contrary, I'd made it abundantly clear that consent could be requested any time it was needed. That, I felt, would put me on very solid safe ground if any unknown person in a back-office or higher up tried to put coercive pressure on me, or implied I wouldn't get what I wanted unless I signed fully.
Consent can't be consent unless freely given.
It was completely non standard - and I never had an issue doing it. I've done it several times since, and never had any hint of an issue any time - perhaps because it's so darn obvious what the issue is.
add a comment |
I have a medical matter that comes with a consent form. The form there, like yours, authorises them to contact "anyone" to check "anything", without time limit. (And, incidentally, not just limited to the medical matter, according to the strict wording.)
I did as you did. I declined - but in order to smooth it over as best I could, I wrote clearly in the blank space for the signature, something like "CONSENT TO BE OBTAINED IN WRITING ON EACH AND EVERY OCCASION", and signed that instead.
My rationale was that this way, nobody could ever argue that I had refused consent. On the contrary, I'd made it abundantly clear that consent could be requested any time it was needed. That, I felt, would put me on very solid safe ground if any unknown person in a back-office or higher up tried to put coercive pressure on me, or implied I wouldn't get what I wanted unless I signed fully.
Consent can't be consent unless freely given.
It was completely non standard - and I never had an issue doing it. I've done it several times since, and never had any hint of an issue any time - perhaps because it's so darn obvious what the issue is.
add a comment |
I have a medical matter that comes with a consent form. The form there, like yours, authorises them to contact "anyone" to check "anything", without time limit. (And, incidentally, not just limited to the medical matter, according to the strict wording.)
I did as you did. I declined - but in order to smooth it over as best I could, I wrote clearly in the blank space for the signature, something like "CONSENT TO BE OBTAINED IN WRITING ON EACH AND EVERY OCCASION", and signed that instead.
My rationale was that this way, nobody could ever argue that I had refused consent. On the contrary, I'd made it abundantly clear that consent could be requested any time it was needed. That, I felt, would put me on very solid safe ground if any unknown person in a back-office or higher up tried to put coercive pressure on me, or implied I wouldn't get what I wanted unless I signed fully.
Consent can't be consent unless freely given.
It was completely non standard - and I never had an issue doing it. I've done it several times since, and never had any hint of an issue any time - perhaps because it's so darn obvious what the issue is.
I have a medical matter that comes with a consent form. The form there, like yours, authorises them to contact "anyone" to check "anything", without time limit. (And, incidentally, not just limited to the medical matter, according to the strict wording.)
I did as you did. I declined - but in order to smooth it over as best I could, I wrote clearly in the blank space for the signature, something like "CONSENT TO BE OBTAINED IN WRITING ON EACH AND EVERY OCCASION", and signed that instead.
My rationale was that this way, nobody could ever argue that I had refused consent. On the contrary, I'd made it abundantly clear that consent could be requested any time it was needed. That, I felt, would put me on very solid safe ground if any unknown person in a back-office or higher up tried to put coercive pressure on me, or implied I wouldn't get what I wanted unless I signed fully.
Consent can't be consent unless freely given.
It was completely non standard - and I never had an issue doing it. I've done it several times since, and never had any hint of an issue any time - perhaps because it's so darn obvious what the issue is.
answered 48 mins ago
StilezStilez
2,2671412
2,2671412
add a comment |
add a comment |
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Since I don't have a direct answer to your questions, i can only offer this bit of information: one of the largest insurance companies in the world conducts annual background checks on all employees. They send a notification to everyone when it occurs, so for them, it's SOP, regardless of your position with them.
– Taegost
11 hours ago
8
@Taegost I can understand that. My concern about potential abuse was the fact that this company doesn't have a standard in place, e.g. yearly - it's random. And they clearly state that they do not have to disclose it to you or notify you. Plus, in this particular position, employees wouldn't have access to any personal or sensitive information.
– Cindy
11 hours ago
15
@DavidK I am not uncomfortable with future background checks. What I object to is giving anyone carte blanche to access my personal and sensitive information any time they choose to without letting me know. Even if the hiring company has no ill intent, that doesn't stop the 3rd party company or a rogue employee of their's from accessing such information at their will. And because there is no set timeframe or notification in place, misuse or abuse could easily go unnoticed.
– Cindy
7 hours ago
2
For context, a secret clearance, passport application, and immigration process don't allow this kind of open-ended discovery. Clearly, the organization in question holds the door open because it doesn't trust its employees and past employees to play nice, (possibly as an admission they don't pay a living wage).
– Rich
7 hours ago
1
@Rich Actually, just last year the US government just switched to a Continuous Evaluation model for clearance holders
– David K
7 hours ago